Powder coating some copper this week

[mash rookie]

I am going to have a couple of items clear powder coated this week. Powder coating is very durable. Most spray coatings scratches easily. I have been using car wax on polished copper to avoid scratched laquer. My spiral condensers darken in time requiring vinegar soaking. With clear coating they may stay shinny eye candy forever. I have one that is ready to go. To test external durability I will clear coat the add on section for Mashy's OD 01 at the same time.

[Hearts_On_Fire]

Coating the condensers might affect your heat transfer at the expense of having the ability to attract magpies. Just saying...

[Prairiepiss]

Are they going to use a high temp powder? I've thought about this many times. And I have seen what happens to regular temp powder used in a higher temp area. Even the temps we work with. Can discolor and or damage the finish. So when I had a bunch of parts done we used the high temp stuff for it all. Because some were engines parts. That I didn't want to mess up. And it was cheaper for me to just buy the one powder.

Watching to see how this turns out.

[mash rookie]

Coating the condensers might affect your heat transfer at the expense of having the ability to attract magpies. Just saying...

My Spiral condenser is so efficient that I doubt there will be any negative side affects. I have run up to two gallons an hour with a minimal flow. Typical flow at one gallon an hour is just a trickle. Magpies? You mean people that actually spend money? Or those that just make noise? Just sayin...

Are they going to use a high temp powder? I've thought about this many times. And I have seen what happens to regular temp powder used in a higher temp area. Even the temps we work with. Can discolor and or damage the finish. So when I had a bunch of parts done we used the high temp stuff for it all. Because some were engines parts. That I didn't want to mess up. And it was cheaper for me to just buy the one powder.
Watching to see how this turns out.

Yes, Everything they do is 400 deg coating. That is why I am doing a column section. Just to find out how it will hold up. Again, some talk. I build, I test, I spend $$ and share my insight with HD.

[emptyglass]

Be interesting to see how it goes MR

I've clear coted columns before, as you say scratches easy, but the copper still tones underneath. The condenser skins dont, where its always cool. I like the toning that copper takes on. I wonder if your powder coating will or wont stop toning. Interesting...

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

[mash rookie]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

On the contrary. Where the hell did you get that ??... I spend thousands a year having powder coating done. When not over cooked it is very tough. Certainly ten times tougher tan any clear lacquer or spray finish available at a hardware store.

[Prairiepiss]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

On the contrary. Where the hell did you get that ??... I spend thousands a year having powder coating done. When not over cooked it is very tough. Certainly ten times tougher tan any clear lacquer or spray finish available at a hardware store.

+1 on some tough stuff. Not to mention it does hold up to chemicals pretty good. Well at least I can vouch for gas and oil.

[myles]

What sort of temperatures are involved in the powder coating process? High enough to be an issue for soft soldered joints?

[just-a-sip]

myles that's going to depend on the powder itself. although some high temp powders are baked/ cured at 400-500 degrees and can withstand up to temps as high as 1200 there are some that cure much lower. with a little research he should be able to find one that does the trick at around 200-300 and shouldn't have a problem.

[emptyglass]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

I guess the trick is to not use your plated coumn to go around whacking things. If you want to whack something, use a boka.

[mash rookie]

What sort of temperatures are involved in the powder coating process? High enough to be an issue for soft soldered joints?

They do a 400 degree cook. Yes, a soft solder risk. I use soft silver on everything. I think the melting temp is closer to 700 degrees on it. We will find out how it works. If necessary I can build them with all hard solder. What I am really looking for here is the next step in manufacturing high end equipment. No holds barred, finest and most creative possible.

[Bushman]

MR, let me congratulate you I know Mashy is going to love his new still as do I. It has allowed me to try different recipes and not spend 12-17 hours on a run. Good luck with launching your new business

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

On the contrary. Where the hell did you get that ??... I spend thousands a year having powder coating done. When not over cooked it is very tough. Certainly ten times tougher tan any clear lacquer or spray finish available at a hardware store.

+1 on some tough stuff. Not to mention it does hold up to chemicals pretty good. Well at least I can vouch for gas and oil.

I didn't mean to imply that it was a bad choice for what you are doing, or that it isn't durable. Just pointing out that it can chip off if it gets hit with anything hard, like a wrench, dropped or knocked over, etc.

Keep us posted as to how it all works out. I'm really curious about the powder coating adhesion properties on polished copper. Most stuff that I have had powder coated was bead blasted and degreased for a surface preparation. I really do hope that it works good.


Here's a Q&A about powder coating of polished surfaces that I found online about it at pcoating.com:

**************************
10/13/2011 - Q: This question is about wheels in particular but can be applicable on any polished part. If you need a rough surface for the powder to grip to, how can you apply a clear coat over a polished part and get a decent lifespan out of the powder? I know you can get the powder to stick to the part initially, but it seems to chip off easily in a short amount of time. T.N., Olathe, Colo.

A: A polished part will present a very smooth surface to the paint, as you know; however, proper pretreatment of the wheel will give the powder a medium that enhances the adhesion to the substrate. The most infamous substrate that people have tried to paint is chrome. A high-luster chrome will offer a very poor surface for paint adhesion, and the only way to correct the situation is to scuff the chrome surface. Likewise, if you inspect the surface of a good grade of sheet metal, it appears to the eye that this surface won’t make a good substrate for adhesion. In this situation, a good pretreatment will modify the surface, and the paint and the metal will get along well together. Most wheels today are either aluminum or magnesium, and without some type of passivation of the metal, paint (liquid or powder) will have poor adhesion and will chip easily. Just because the part is polished doesn't mean that it won't require a metal prep. So, I only mention this because you didn’t specifically note the pretreatment you’re using. I’ve worked with several aluminum wheel coaters who apply powder clear to a polished surface, and they have good success with passing chip tests.
**************************

[mash rookie]

I finally got the parts back from powder coat a couple of days ago. They were beautiful. Kind of golden colored. They both went home with Mashy today. He was feeling the love for the shinny condenser so we changed it out on his still. He was up for a little warranty work on OD001. The sight glass tubes have been a pain and needed replacement. It took a couple of hours to put a new cover on it and get it installed. He has promised to run them hard and report back on how the clear coat holds up. I really think I will use this treatment on future builds.

[squeezins]

if the coating doesnt give you the results you're expecting you might try cerakote.. Its tough as nails and can be done at home with a little enginuity. http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[emptyglass]

Well it sure looks sweet, MR.

Glad it has so far performed well.

And the still looks pretty sweet too.

[mash rookie]

if the coating doesnt give you the results you're expecting you might try cerakote.. Its tough as nails and can be done at home with a little enginuity. http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Squeezins thank you for posting this. I have been eyeballing this stuff since your post. The powder coat is beautiful and Mashy reports it appears to be holding up well. This has my interest because of having to send out parts for powder coating and limitations of size.

In polishing the new big boiler we are having a hard time setting correct methods. My guy has used too coarse of scotch pad in a few places that does more harm than good leaving scratches that the next steps do not remove. We are using stepped polishing wheels before a buffer and rouge polish.

Because of the work necessary to remove excess solder and deep scratches I am hoping that a one step of scotch bright pads on the mini grinders followed by ceramic coating will provide a long lasting beautiful finish.

Ceramic coating requires a rough or sand blasted finish to adhere. I ordered some online this morning. I will post test results when done.

[reckless kelly]

Wow!
She's beautiful!

[mash rookie]

After ordering the ceramic clear coat online last weekend my phone rang early on Monday. It was a national sales rep for the manufacturer. He specialized in their clear coat material. He is interested to see how it performs on copper stills.
He noted that as manufacturers their product is relabeled and resold by several brand manes and has a great track record in rough conditions.

He told me that unlike their other products the clear coat can be applied to a polished finish and will adhere well and provide a very protective finish with a very light coat only ½ mill thick.

Although expensive to purchase, the coverage will make it quite affordable to use. I received my pint by Wed. Yesterday I polished up a four tube spiral condenser yesterday and dug out my HPLV gun. After washing well with acetone I hung and sprayed the condenser. It took very little to cover. 1-2 oz ??
It drys in 30 minutes but takes 5 days to cure. It smelled like bubble gum.

He said this material is good to 800 degrees. If so, I can solder near the finish without damaging it. Next week I will expose it to heads, acetone and heat.
Cool beans dude.

[pfshine]

I like where your going with this. Nice shinny copper is a beautiful sight.

[squeezins]

After ordering the ceramic clear coat online last weekend my phone rang early on Monday. It was a national sales rep for the manufacturer. He specialized in their clear coat material. He is interested to see how it performs on copper stills.
He noted that as manufacturers their product is relabeled and resold by several brand manes and has a great track record in rough conditions.

He told me that unlike their other products the clear coat can be applied to a polished finish and will adhere well and provide a very protective finish with a very light coat only ½ mill thick.

Although expensive to purchase, the coverage will make it quite affordable to use. I received my pint by Wed. Yesterday I polished up a four tube spiral condenser yesterday and dug out my HPLV gun. After washing well with acetone I hung and sprayed the condenser. It took very little to cover. 1-2 oz ??
It drys in 30 minutes but takes 5 days to cure. It smelled like bubble gum.

He said this material is good to 800 degrees. If so, I can solder near the finish without damaging it. Next week I will expose it to heads, acetone and heat.
Cool beans dude.

How did it hold up ??

[mash rookie]

That stuff is incredible. I clear coated a spiral condenser. After letting it cure for a couple of weeks I tested it against acetone and pure alcohol. They didnt touch it. I banged it with a hammer. I dented my pipe and it didnt chip. Really tough. I will use it on large custom chandelier commision soon.

The MSDS is health risk 3 but their site only recommends a dust respirator. Easy to use and tough. If you own a paint gun buy some. Its initial high cost will be offset by coverage.

[Frosteecat]

I leave you alone for 5 months and you're clear coating stills? I'm tempted to come back in July to see your first near earth orbiting still....

[mash rookie]

Hi Frosty, I have been setting up a co. to build and sell stills but have had to put it aside for awhile. My Art Glass business has me buried at the moment. You know I love the R & D process.

[Frosteecat]

Good to have those kinds of problems huh? I'm doing a leak test on a redesign of my own, complete with inline thumper and a perf plate and triple sieve/screen stack! Hope it's a winner.

[tickle]

One thing about powder coating is, that if it gets whacked by something solid, it will chip, and then be susceptible to flaking off.

I guess the trick is to not use your plated coumn to go around whacking things. If you want to whack something, use a boka.

Lol!

[guittarmaster]

That stuff is incredible. I clear coated a spiral condenser. After letting it cure for a couple of weeks I tested it against acetone and pure alcohol. They didnt touch it. I banged it with a hammer. I dented my pipe and it didnt chip. Really tough. I will use it on large custom chandelier commision soon.

The MSDS is health risk 3 but their site only recommends a dust respirator. Easy to use and tough. If you own a paint gun buy some. Its initial high cost will be offset by coverage.

What are you useing to apply this? An airbrush?

also, do you have any photo-ma-graphs to show the class?

gm