uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[BoisBlancBoy]

Question about how much to take out when it's done fermenting. Should I siphon the fluid down as close as possible to the lees, then add a couple gallons to keep the yeast alive until I can add my backset?

[Jimbo]

Im gonna profess my ignorance on UJSSM sugarheads here, as an AG'r.... but backset is normally added to a bourbon (corn heavy) mash to lower the ph enough to ensure good conversion during mash (at 145F). If you bring this to 145 your gonna kill the yeast. So is backset added to UJSSM purely for flavor? Is there no real conversion going on in a UJSSM?

[rgarry]

It's amazing how good this comes out. I have been doing this recipe for about 4 years. I have been able to improve to the point that all things given, I know where the hearts are with very little effort. Just tasted a run that I did in October that was aging. Wow. Smooth. I have realized that if you are not in a rush, you can really produce a good product. I did the same for a NCHouch Bourbon that I brewed before thanksgiving. Put it away and haven't tasted it but it smelled great last night. I'm saving it for vacation in July.

[The flint stones]

I am having PH issues I think but still reading up on the subject. I have added BIcar of Soda to one and Calcium Carbonate on another batch I have fermenting to bring it up but I have opened and retested and PH is low again. I believe it will be finished this weekend and may just start over after I run these batches. This was my first sour mash (2nd gen used 1.5 gals of backset) and took two weeks to finish. GRRR I thought I could make it a few generations before this would happen. I have the PH strips but will invest in PH meter.

[Beavercreek]

I keep ending up with a taquila flavor when my likker is done when using this recipe. dont get me wrong, it still tastes great but I was wondering if this is common for this recipe or if someone might know a trick to change the flavor. could it be the water im using?

I've had similar results, mix the white dog with squirt and a twist of lime and it tastes like a margarita.

[Uncle Jesse]

As an experienced whiskey drinker I have to say that the few occasions where we drank A LOT more of UJSM than we normally do of some excellent store bought top-shelf whiskies, I feel surprisingly good the next day. I'll not mince words. There have been a few weekends where I drank more than I normally do and I know it's not a good idea to take one more sip. But the next day I wake up as if I only had 2 Miller Lites the night before. Is home distillation a cleaner product for some reason? It sure seems like it to me.

That's because you are taking good cuts, for flavor. Not wide cuts, for profit.

The hangovers and headaches aren't built into your product like they are many of the commercial products.

[BoisBlancBoy]

Just did my first run of this recipe and everything turned out great. Does anyone have a favorite mix drink they like with this product? Or anything for that matter, what do you like to do with your hearts? Just curious to see some opinions.

[Angel_Kefka]

Finally managed to finish the whole thread. Have to say it was worth it, some good info spread out in the middle pages. Have a first gen batch fermenting now. To anyone who read the recipe only, read it all.

[smokindave]

Im gonna profess my ignorance on UJSSM sugarheads here, as an AG'r.... but backset is normally added to a bourbon (corn heavy) mash to lower the ph enough to ensure good conversion during mash (at 145F). If you bring this to 145 your gonna kill the yeast. So is backset added to UJSSM purely for flavor? Is there no real conversion going on in a UJSSM?

Hey Jim,

That is my understanding. The backset is merely added to the lees/corn bed to lower the ph for the yeast, and to add flavor to the wash. No mashing/conversion is actually done in this UJSSM recipe. I have been trying some experiments with mashing 2 lbs of flaked rye with 2lbs of barley malt, letting that convert, adding addl sugar, cooling, and then adding this to my UJSSM buckets, along with some cooled backset. It is a little more work to cook the rye/malt, but I am trying to emulate an all-grain bourbon without having to gelatinize all of that corn. AS has been stated, this recipe gives a good corn flavor as you get into more and more generations. I think with a little rye and barley added......a person could really get close to an all-grain bourbon flavor profile. That is my hope anyway. I have found all-grains to be too much work for my limited operation.

[Jimbo]

I am trying to emulate an all-grain bourbon without having to gelatinize all of that corn.

Hey Dave, I dont know exactly how others do it, but its pretty simple how I do it. Boil the water and backset first (and some gypsum). Turn off the heat, stir in the corn and wrap it up for 3 hours. Done Monitor temp and stir in the malt when it hits 148, keep it wrapped to mash. Its pretty simple. Autopilot after doing a few.

[Greenguy]

What sg to u guys reckon I should wack it in the still got one all most ready
One other question does the yeast die if u wait to long two brew guy at the home few shop here in nz reckons if I go over 1.000 the yeast will be spent what ya reckon I'm using 4kg kibbled maze and 4kg sugar 8grams of ec1118
Cheers

[smokindave]

I am trying to emulate an all-grain bourbon without having to gelatinize all of that corn.

Hey Dave, I dont know exactly how others do it, but its pretty simple how I do it. Boil the water and backset first (and some gypsum). Turn off the heat, stir in the corn and wrap it up for 3 hours. Done Monitor temp and stir in the malt when it hits 148, keep it wrapped to mash. Its pretty simple. Autopilot after doing a few.

Yeah, I tried that also.....I think after reading one of your other posts. I boiled the water, and then add the corn, rye and let it cook with the heat off for a couple hours. At 150, I added my malt and stirred every 20 min or so. I thought I had a pretty good conversion. Starch test was negative. My biggest pain was when I went to ferment. I only got about 3/4 of the liquid after vigorously straining the mash by hand in a grain bag. Did one on the grain, and I did not get a very good yield of wash. I did one ferment another batch off of most of the grain, and it was a little better on the liquid volume. In the end, I did not get much hearts for my trouble. My yield was really low for doing 11 gallons of initial wash. I ended up with maybe a half quart of good high proof hearts. I think the all grain would scale up pretty well perhaps, where I would get enough liquid to get a solid output. I am used to doing 10 gallons of sweetfeed, and ending up with 3 quarts of 80% hearts.

I will try again at some point. RIght now, I just want to get some stock built up for aging, and run some of my sweetfeed and DWWG feints. I have 10 gallons of UJSSM with mashed rye/wheat going right now, and I hope to run it next week. If that turns out well, I might not do an all-grain for a while.

[Jimbo]

In the end, I did not get much hearts for my trouble. My yield was really low for doing 11 gallons of initial wash. I ended up with maybe a half quart of good high proof hearts. ..... I might not do an all-grain for a while.

Im sorry Dave, thats pretty discouraging. I dont understand why you had such bad luck. Did you have some backset in the mash water? That helps with corn based recipes. Some gypsum helps the yeast too. What yeast did you use and was it too warm of ferment? That could cause more off flavors and lower hearts cut. I have great luck with ale yeasts in the mid to upper 60's F,

Generally get 5-6 fifths of 80-90 proof 'keep' from a 12 gallon wash of 22-25lbs grain. SG is around 1.048 (22 lbs) -1.055 (25 lbs) but the final yield indicates something higher fermenting on the grain, especially with bourbons (Corn). From the calculator at the parent site 11 gallons (squeezed from 12) of 1.065 is right about 1 gallon of 100%. So if Im getting 6 fifths at 40% thats about a 50% yield to theoretical. Just about where I always seem to land, with my cuts. Also, dumping all the feints in the next round significantly ups the yield even further on subsequent batches.

Dont know if any of this helps. Not trying to change your mind if you found somethign that is working for you now. But I am interested in helping you figure out what might have went wrong, so it doesnt happen again next time you try an AG.

Take care.

[Greenguy]

Hey thanks for all the great info guys just got my wash into the still got 12% from my wash 5kg corn 5kg sugar 25ltr wash one pack of ec1118 can't wait to run it have added some more water and new corn and eagerly waiting to add some backset
All so have another one down at the moment that I used 2 packs of ec1118 so c what the diff was and it is bubbling like a trooper
I am using a reflux still but have detuned it and is the first time to run like this hope it works ok
Cheers again all
Mitch

[on1wheel01]

Well I finally had major stalling issues. All basically stalled. I added a few pinches of Epsom salt, and a little baking soda and poof started back up. This was a few days ago and major work is being done. Still bubbling strong and the sg is dropping.
I really need to go buy a ph tester

[StillRunnin]

I have as little theory and need some input. I've been researching since December without actually running anything. I've just pieced together my pot still and will be working with this as my first project. Let me begin with what I'll actually do...

I'll be starting with 10 gallons (double the recipe) in a 66qt bin. I'll use yellow cracked corn from Tractor Supply initially and Distillers or EC1118. I have a spigot, heater and air lock on the bin, so it's ready for me.

Q1: Can I use/has anyone used the water sold at walmart in the refillable bulk 5gal containers?

I would really rather use white corn, and am unable to find it in East TN reasonably priced. However, plain corn meal is made from white unless otherwise marked. I can also find hummus type nutrients made from white corn.

Theory: For cost efficiency, mix 5lb cracked yellow with 5lb white mill. Once it finishes, rack as usual. As opposed to tossing the "spent yellow" only, I'll need to toss the "spent white" mill also, correct?
Q2: Would it be effective to toss 1/3 of the bed? This would mean scooping yellow, white, and yeast bed all together. I don't think I'll be able to remove the mill from the yeast, as both are very small particles. Then replace 1/3 of all the above...

I'm going for taste here. My research leads me to believe that white makes a better product, so would mixing make it a little better then?

I'm also looking into the Maillard Theory, if anyone has any suggestions. I've read what's available here, and find it interesting. Anyone have any feedback?

[flynpa]

Hello everyone. I started my first UJSSM using baker's yeast. All seems to be well and will run it in a couple days. Yesterday I acquired some Crosby & Bakers Distillers Yeast (DADY). Should I add it to the second generation, start a new generation with new corn, distillers yeast, and of course the backset, or just let it go as is? Thanks!

[wineboxwilly]

I have run 4 gen now. I took my heads, hearts, and tails from my first run and dumped it into my still with my mash. Every run I collect everything over 120 proof and blend it to 125% so I can age it on oak in 1 liter jars. I take everything under 120 and dump it in my still with each mash. I run my still and collect everything down to about 20%. My last run I pulled out 4 litres of spirits above 120 and another 4 below. So far after aging my blends for only 2 weeks its better then the top shelf stuff I get around here... loads of flavor and great after taste. Even the non whiskey drinkers think its amazing. I have read the first 35 pages of this forum and I have learned alot, one of the things I have noticed about this hobby is that you can pretty much do what ever you like and try everything. So I am wondering if anyone has ever tried this method before and what did they learn doing it? Am I headed for disaster????

[Andy Capp]

Hello everyone. I started my first UJSSM using baker's yeast. All seems to be well and will run it in a couple days. Yesterday I acquired some Crosby & Bakers Distillers Yeast (DADY). Should I add it to the second generation, start a new generation with new corn, distillers yeast, and of course the backset, or just let it go as is? Thanks!

Just let it go as is. Alot of members use bakers yeast and it works fine.

[Andy Capp]

Am I headed for disaster????

Only if you believe that reading 35 pages out of 185 is OK.

[F6Hawk]

Am I headed for disaster????

Only if you believe that reading 35 pages out of 185 is OK.

+1 Especially if you think you can collect everything around 120 proof and blend it to 125%.

[wineboxwilly]

I'll get the rest of them read dont worry.

[flynpa]

Hello all. I am a bit confused. I ran my first gen and kept everything but the foreshots (68% to 28%). Gonna throw it in with the 2nd gen run. What do I do with the feints from the 2nd gen: run them with 3rd gen or save them for an all feints run? The reason I ask is because someone said that beginners should keep 80 to 70% and use the rest as feints but with my basic pot still I do not think that I can get above 70% without adding feints to each run. Highest I got with my first gen was 68%. Did I run it too fast? I had a broken pencil lead stream.

Thanks for the info. I am slowly learning.

flynpa

[Jimbo]

Your keep varies widely by the quality of your wash, the abv, the yeast used, your personal preference, whether you want to keep it white and drink it right away or age it on oak. The best way to determine that for yourself after a run is to ditch the fores, a few ounces per 5 gal wash. And capture the rest in jars and smell and taste it to see what you wanna keep. heads add bite, tails taste like wet cardboard. Some is good in aged stuff, not so good in white neutral you wanna drink quick. To say, keep 70-80% abv out of your still is a meaningless statement, for too many reasons to list.

Sure, dump your feints in the next run, it will boost your abv and the keep qty. I put feints from similar recipe's right into the very next run. When doing double runs (stripper and then a spirit, whihc is how I do all the AG's) The first run is all feints by definition (except some fores which I take and pitch), then run it again and determine yoru keep, everything else is feints to go in the next stripper run. etc.

[chamlin2]

Hello all. I am a bit confused. I ran my first gen and kept everything but the foreshots (68% to 28%). Gonna throw it in with the 2nd gen run. What do I do with the feints from the 2nd gen: run them with 3rd gen or save them for an all feints run? The reason I ask is because someone said that beginners should keep 80 to 70% and use the rest as feints but with my basic pot still I do not think that I can get above 70% without adding feints to each run. Highest I got with my first gen was 68%. Did I run it too fast? I had a broken pencil lead stream.

Thanks for the info. I am slowly learning.

flynpa

UJ states later that he is using a fractioning still.... this question was answered 100 pages back or so or in the wiki. there are many different ways of doing it. Someone will come back and say I'm all wrong but the easiest for me is to strip a few batches keep everything except the fores build up enough to make one good spirit run. cut your stripping run to keep your wash below the 40% mark and run a spirit run. You should get higher proof.Ive even cut my stripping run with water and a touch of backset. each still is different i have to cut my wash down to 35% to make it that when i hit my middle run or hearts I'm in the 80%-70% range that means my heads are like 85% . Remember that this is YOUR whiskey try different things.... use the advice to get started everyones tastes are different a lower stilled proof will have a ton of flavor too much for some just right for others. the only way to learn is do more. keep a journal of what you did if you like it re-create it if you don't change it up.

Good Luck

[flynpa]

chamlin2: I am on page 85 and continue to read daily. I did read about people saving stripping runs for a final spirit run but I also read about taking a "sipping" cut from each run. I person threw out - 'as a novice, keep 80% down to 70%'. This is what I was worried about because the highest I got on my first run was 68% and I was concerned that I had done something wrong. I am gonna add the feints from my 'sweet' first gen run to the second gen run and see how it goes then start saving for a spirit run. Thanks.

flynpa

[mash rookie]

PLEASE GENTLEMEN. Do not turn this into a chit chat thread. If you do not understand what is writem by page 185, Please start over, or start a new thread in the novice section.
The only subject not covered early but is covered ofter is the addition of calcium carbonate to adjust ph after ferment slows due to high acid.

If you are asking if you can use walmart water or what the backset does, go to the back of the class and start over.

This is the best damn stuff ever made. Please respect it.

[Andy Capp]

I would of thought that members were respecting it by being here chatting about how good it is. It's great that so many are using this recipe and not some dodgy muck put forward from a silicone loving website.
I see it differently thats all.

[mash rookie]

I don't mean to scare folks off. Sorry, just a little frustrated. I encourage on topic conversation. This stuff rocks and has so many options.

What grain bill changes do you make to this sugar head recipe?

How does sour mash work with other grain flavors?

How many batches do guys get from one grain charge?

Does anybody do a sweet sugar head? Doing continued generations but not using backset?

When fermentation slows from rising backset PH how much calcium carbonate do you add?

[rreidiii]

A couple of questions about this recipe. My first attempt with this recipe didn't go so well at the time I didn't have a hydrometer and obviously couldn't take an original reading anyway the first batch stalled after a week and a half and the sg was only 1040 and a pH of 3.3. I raised the pH up to about 4.9 with baking soda and she started up again but after a week it stopped again and the sg was only 1030. Three weeks into it and a little mold on top I just decided to toss it. I started another batch a week earlier and everything went well the Starting pH was 6.2 and went to 3.6 in five days and the sg was 1000 so I racked it in a carboy for a few days threw it in to the pot still and got a total of twelve pints throwing away the first 250ml. I redid the mash with 25% backset fresh water and sugar per the original directions and started with a pH of 5.17. Today six days later the sg is 1010 and the pH is 3.3 so I threw in a little Potassium Bicarbonate to raise the pH up to 4.6 and it took a fair amount of it to do this. well she is bubbling again but slow.
My question, is the pH suppose to go down this much? from all that I have read...and that being almost all of this thread, it this is a pretty simple and forgiving recipe. I am using a yeast from White Labs the first batch that I did I used was their California Ale strain and this second batch is their Tennessee Whiskey strain, I know for a fact that the yeast is fresh because I pick it up at their lab and when I picked up the Tennessee stuff they said I was the first to ever get it. I'll probably be stopping back by there soon and ask them some questions as they are very friendly and nice folk.
As for the twelve pints, I am just trying to get this hobby under control and I plan on saving several batches and do a spirit run with them in the foreseeable future. Any help or comments are greatly appreciated.