clostridium saccharobutyricum bacteria

[stillwagon]

Has anyone read the Arroyo patent app or any of the other related discussions on the use of the clostridium saccharobutyricum bacteria during fermentation? It is supposed to produce desirable esters in a rum fermentation. Another question, is anyone using aged dunder and getting consistent and positive results? I have been studying this subject and doing some experimenting myself, and the results are quite varied.

[blind drunk]

There are a few mentions here and there -

http://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us& ... 20&bih=954" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

aged dunder -

http://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us& ... _qf.&cad=b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Just to get you started.

[stillwagon]

I have found considerable information as well as a source for the bacteria. I was wondering if anyone else has entertained the possibility of trying it themselves. It sounds pretty straight forward. Add the culture 6-12 hours into the ferment, the bacteria will co-ferment the wash actually speeding up the ferment, the alcohol in the end of the ferment kills the bacteria leaving behind the esters desired. Any thoughts?

[blind drunk]

Any thoughts?

Go for it.

Where did you find the source? Do they sell it in reasonable, hobby size amounts?

[MDH]

If you use wild yeast to ferment you will get literally thousands of strains that produce way more esters than normal yeast. These are mostly strains of Pichia and Candida around here, most rely on atmospheric oxygen and aren't solely anaerobic, these are bad for ferments. But as long as you keep it airtight you will generally have positive wild yeast that produce good flavors.

[stillwagon]

I think that is why they isolated this strain. He had only positive results. It is available at ATCC labs for a little under $400 a culture.

[stillwagon]

I found a few more labs that sell the bacteria. One in England, a couple in Asia, and another private firm in the US. I have an inquiry with the US firm.

An interesting side note is that this bacteria is also sold as a probiotic in capsule form, for the regulation of normal gut activities and to help control diarrhea. It is also used in the production of a variety of products. It is non-pathogenic and is a normal inhabitant of the human gut in the mid intestinal region.

Relatedly, I was given a two step yeast protocol that uses a low alcohol tolerant/high ester producing yeast In the first part of fermentation, This yeast dies out at about 2% ABV. Then the second yeast is pitched to finish out the ferment. I will let you know how this goes as well.

[blind drunk]

Sounds really interesting. Good luck with it.

[stillwagon]

I just spoke with the Dr. at the lab. They are going to prepare the inoculum for me. I don't have an incubator with a CO2 environment, and all the other equipment to prevent foreign bacteria from getting involved. Sounds like it should make things much simpler. Start the ferment, pour in the bacteria. The fermentation kills off the bacteria at the end because of the high ABV.

[MDH]

Pichia fermentanis will produce many esters in fruit mashes. It ferments to 4%. The rest is done with Saccharomyces bayanus. There is only one commercial seller of it and he caters only to huge wineries.

If you lower the pitch rate, use a fruity yeast to begin with, ferment at high temps etc you will invariably get a strong ester profile. There are no two ways about it.

[stillwagon]

The cultures are in. Waiting on the incubator to begin trials.

[stillwagon]

Rum turned out well using the fermentation and distillation outline by Arroyo. Getting ready to do a bigger batch now.

[stillwagon]

First 500 gallons went well. Almost finished distillation. Starting another next week.

[MDH]

Looks awesome. Let me know when the commercial release for this is. I also happen to design labels...

[stillwagon]

The labels are in to the TTB for approval now. The pictures are of the results. 35 gallons of hearts and a few gallons of the tails that will be blended back in.

[Cu29]

Now that's a run! No screwing around.

Well how's the taste after all that?

[MDH]

Planning on trying any solera aging for long term releases?

[goose eye]

Set one of them Jimmy johns down on a rock or
pebble an you gonna turn to ss. Them backins
is kinda cloudy ain't they. you ever blended backins.
Be kinda careful cause it'll havein you put your kettle back on the blocks.

So IM tole

[stillwagon]

For my first big run, I think it turned out pretty well. I should have run the tails out more on the stripping runs and kept them out. I blend the latter portion of the tails back in for the flavor. The first part of the tails tastes like crap, but when they get down to about 35% and down to 25% they smell good and have a sweet taste. These get blended back in. But with the stripping runs I should not have put the tails back in. They seemed to get reduce significantly.

[Cu29]

I found the same thing with the tails, interesting. The early tails are almost astringent. They are nutty / peppery later. Depends on the run but I'm with you on the early tails.

[stillwagon]

It will all be aged in oak barrels. I have (20) 5 gallon barrels coming from Deep South barrels in Texas. I have been trying to figure out how to cycle the barrels and get my money back to buy more barrels. So I have found the local beer brewers like to age their beer in used rum and bourbon barrels. My wholesale price is almost half the retail price, so I will sell them my used barrel for half the retail price they get a good deal, I get my money back on the barrel, and I can buy a new barrel. Win - win for everyone.

[goose eye]

If you look thru old post uncle Jessie me an a few
other from that time was discussin the same thangs if
it won't lost when all them post disappeared. Think it
was bout 7 years ago

So IM Tole

[stevethebartender]

First 500 gallons went well. Almost finished distillation. Starting another next week.

Many years later, how has your experiments with the bacteria worked out?