First still, questions on size

[daryl512]

Hi all,
Just joined the forums (officially, been reading for a while) after been itching to build my first still.
My plan is to build a basic pot still with a 5 gallon turkey fryer type pot. I want to use a liebig condenser and just have some questions on measurements.
For my column I was planning on using either 1", 1.5", or 2" pipe at a height of 24". Any reason why I should choose one column diameter over another? I will then use a 90 fitting at the very top to reduce down to 1/2" at a 45 degree angle. The condenser will be 30" of 3/4 over a 1/2.
Any thoughts or recommendations on this setup? My main concerns are if these sizes will be an efficient setup or should I modify sizes?

Thanks,
Daryl

[ChefSteve]

I think you have a good design started....I would go with 2" and at the top put a union so down the road you can add or do a modify for a reflux....I love people that build their own...remember add a place for your thermo. Good Luck and put up pics when done.

[wv_cooker]

Might I recommend Samohan's pot still plans. A proven design and the dimensions work well. Here's a link.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0&start=24

If you use the 2" size when you decide on a larger boiler such as a keg it will still work fine.

[googe]

+1 cooker. And a thermo isn't necessary, just makes your first runs more confusing for a novice.

[Prairiepiss]

Most turkey fryer pots are aluminum. You will need to find a stainless steel one.

[daryl512]

wv_cooker,
Yeah that pretty much what I plan on building. I found that .pdf about an hour after I posted.

googe,
Help me understand why a thermo isn't necessary? It seems to me that it would help in making sure my pot isn't running too hot and adding too much water to my cut.

Prairiepiss,
Understood on the aluminum. I planned on going the stainless rout.

[bluenose]

For the liebig condenser, is there any benefit of going 1" over 1/2" as opposed to 3/4" over 1/2"?

[wv_cooker]

Well Googe isn't here right now so I'll give it a try for you. The type of wash or mash that you intend to run will determine the temperatures at which your alcohol will come off your still, a thermometer will just be confusing in the beginning and won't tell you anything. Basically you put your wash into pot fire up your still wait till it heats up and starts to get product out of the condenser then you control it by turning the heat up and down until you get the pencil lead sized stream that you are looking for. Using smaller collection vessels in the beginning will help you learn to make your cuts correctly. That said as you seem to be on the right path might I recommend the New Distillers Reading Lounge. There is some of the best info there to help you with learning to run your new still and learning what cuts are and how to make them. Here is a link.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=46
Have fun and be safe!

[daryl512]

wv_cooker,
Thanks for the advise. I've been looking around in there, very good info! I'm still trying to wrap my head around ABV% and how that will fluctuate during a run and cause temperature changes. This is all so new to me so I guess it gets a little more confusing as I haven't distilled anything yet. I'm just really concerned that I do it right and don't end up with too much foreshots or tails in my run. I'm sure this will all become cleared once I start the process.

Thanks,
Daryl

[daryl512]

Also, I see designs where it's a simple pot still design with a liebig condenser either completely vertical or around a 45 degree angle. What are the pros and cons to these angles?

Thanks,
Daryl

[Xecros]

For the liebig condenser, is there any benefit of going 1" over 1/2" as opposed to 3/4" over 1/2"?

I'm not expert here. I did look into a liebig condenser for my setup that I'm currently building, but ultimately decided against it. But doing the numbers, 1" over 1/2" leaves you 1/4" of room all the way around for coolant flow. 3/4" over 1/2" leaves you 1/8" all the way around. now whip out a ruler and look at just how small 1/8" really is. Now think about how quickly water can absorb heat, (which is fast btw), then think about how fast coolant will be able to flow, and then think about how those two things will work together.

If it were me, I'd go with 1" over 1/2"

[sambedded]

For the liebig condenser, is there any benefit of going 1" over 1/2" as opposed to 3/4" over 1/2"?

There is absolutely no benefits for 1 over 1/2. It can knock down more power on the same length if you do 1" over 3/4.

[Halfbaked]

For the liebig condenser, is there any benefit of going 1" over 1/2" as opposed to 3/4" over 1/2"?

3/4 over 1/2 is plenty and the extra weight of the 1" is not good IMHO for my application. At least it has been for me. Only the first 1/3 of the pipe gets hot at most. Its about moving hot water out and replacing it with cool water. I have not done a 1" over a 1/2" so I am not the expert. 1" over 3/4 IMHO is not hobby grade.

[Xecros]

3/4 over 1/2 is plenty and the extra weight of the 1" is not good IMHO for my application. At least it has been for me. Only the first 1/3 of the pipe gets hot at most. Its about moving hot water out and replacing it with cool water. I have not done a 1" over a 1/2" so I am not the expert. 1" over 3/4 IMHO is not hobby grade.

Hobby is defined by how much you distill in a set period of time, IMO anyways, not what size your outlet pipe is. personally speaking, i think a 1/2" outlet pipe is about the max anyone should have.

I've never tried it, but, i just can't see effective condensing with only 1/8" of clearance all the way around. I just can't....

[bluenose]

here's some math:

the gap between 3/4" and 1/2" leaves a volume of 0.3 us fl oz per lineal inch, or 8.85ml

the gap between 1" and 1/2" leaves a volume of 1.06 us fl oz per lineal inch, or 31.37ml

the difference between the two is about 3x the volume, therefore 3x the mass/weight of coolant, but is it equal to 3x to cooling capacity?

[Xecros]

here's some math:

the gap between 3/4" and 1/2" leaves a volume of 0.3 us fl oz per lineal inch, or 8.85ml

the gap between 1" and 1/2" leaves a volume of 1.06 us fl oz per lineal inch, or 31.37ml

the difference between the two is about 3x the volume, therefore 3x the mass/weight of coolant, but is it equal to 3x to cooling capacity?

I would say you would have increased cooling capacity, yes. 3 times as much? possibly...not a physics major here, took it in high school though...

The real question is, it all depends on the temperatures your running your still at vs. the temperature of your cooling water going in, and the length of your condenser. I always try to error on the side of caution, in this case, 1" over 1/2" would be erroring on the side of caution.

[Prairiepiss]

I've seen many use 3/4" for a takeoff. It has more surface area to condenser the vapors. I don't see a problem with a 3/4" inner and a 1" outer. It will be that much heavier. And you would need to compensate by supporting it in some fashion.

But 1/2" inside a 3/4" will work perfectly fine. And it would need to be longer. So again weight and more torque from the length. Will require some support. It all depends on what you have on hand. Or what is easiest to get your hands on.

There is a calculator on the parent site. That can be used to figure all this up.

And there are plans in one of the plans threads. Or was it the condenser thread?

[Truckinbutch]

I'm quite happy with my 1" over 1/2" condenser .Wrapped vapor tube with solid ground wire for turbulator . Knocks down anything I throw at it .Outboard support for the condenser was part of my design so the extra weight is not a factor .

[Prairiepiss]

Also, I see designs where it's a simple pot still design with a liebig condenser either completely vertical or around a 45 degree angle. What are the pros and cons to these angles?

Thanks,
Daryl

There really isn't any. Build your lot still to fit your stillin area. By that I mean. Chose where the boiler will sit. And chose where you want to collect at. Now build your still to do that. If you condenser needs to be so long to knock down the power you will be running. Put the takeoff end where you want to collect. And the other end where it will line up with the pot still riser. And make your riser that tall.

Some thoughts. You aren't going to want to.
Collect on the ground. It sucks trust me.
Collect right next to the boiler. Especially if gas fired.
And remember you will have to run the cooling lines. So you don't want them in the way.

As far as the temps. It's real easy.
100% Ethanol has a boiling point of 173 ish.
100% water has a boiling point of 212 ish.
A mixture of the two will be somewhere between those two numbers.
The more water the higher the temps.
The more ethanol the lower the temps.
And as you run the still. You are removing more of the ethanol then you are the water. Proportionaly to what you started with. So as you run the % of water in the boiler increases. So the boiling point increases.
Also as the run progresses. You will take off more of a percentage of water. As the ethanol is removed. That's why it will start coming off at say 60% ABV. You are getting 60% alcohol and 40% water. The more alcohol you remove. The less is available to take out. So the ABV slowly goes down. To wherever you stop it at.

I think that's it? Now to forth and start building.