Controller heatsink questions

[S-Cackalacky]

I finally received my Chinese made 10K Watt SCR controller in the mail yesterday. I had a couple of computer CPU heatsinks w/fans and had originally planned to install one of the fans on the existing controller heatsink. But, the CPU heatsinks are so much bigger, I decided to replace the existing heatsink. The heatsink was held in place with 4 small self tapping screws - two in the circuit board and two in the SCR chip. When I removed the heatsink, I notice that there was no heatsink paste between it and the SCR chip - just metal to metal. I drilled holes and mounted the new heatsink in the same way as the old one - metal to metal.

1st question - do I need heatsink paste/compound or is metal to metal OK?

The fan is 12V DC, 1.36(?) Amps with 3 wires (red, white, black) and the standard connector to connect to a computer power supply.

2nd question - how to connect the fan to 110V AC - can I simply take an old 110V AC to 12V DC adapter, cut and splice the wires and use it to run the fan? And, do I need all three wires? If I only need two wires, which two of the three do I use? Or, is there some other way I should be doing this? I know, that's more than one question.

Thanks for any advice,
S-C

[just-a-sip]

I finally received my Chinese made 10K Watt SCR controller in the mail yesterday. I had a couple of computer CPU heatsinks w/fans and had originally planned to install one of the fans on the existing controller heatsink. But, the CPU heatsinks are so much bigger, I decided to replace the existing heatsink. The heatsink was held in place with 4 small self tapping screws - two in the circuit board and two in the SCR chip. When I removed the heatsink, I notice that there was no heatsink paste between it and the SCR chip - just metal to metal. I drilled holes and mounted the new heatsink in the same way as the old one - metal to metal.

1st question - do I need heatsink paste/compound or is metal to metal OK?

The fan is 12V DC, 1.36(?) Amps with 3 wires (red, white, black) and the standard connector to connect to a computer power supply.

2nd question - how to connect the fan to 110V AC - can I simply take an old 110V AC to 12V DC adapter, cut and splice the wires and use it to run the fan? And, do I need all three wires? If I only need two wires, which two of the three do I use? Or, is there some other way I should be doing this? I know, that's more than one question.

Thanks for any advice,
S-C

1st although the paste is recommended for better heat transfer, metal on metal will work. however with that said radio shack caries tubes of it for 5 bucks so whats the harm in getting some.
2nd i did the exact same thing on my controller. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=36 the way i did it was take the 110v Ac in and connect it to an old phone charger (prong end) and it does the 12V dc conversion for the fan. if one of the pics you can almost see the charger just taped in the top levt corner of my box

[Prairiepiss]

+1 on just.

The Chinese save a buck by not using heatsink grease. It will last longer with it. They don't care how long it will last you.

[acfixer69]

#$$%%%^^^^$$##!huk%%$#@@@))))shi$_)(***RmeSO)O
Chinese WhAT dONT CARE quess your right PP

AC

[S-Cackalacky]

Just-A-Sip and Mr. P, thanks for the info. I'll pick up some paste tomorrow.

I'm still not sure I understand how to get power to the fan. Will the method I described work and which two wires do I need to run the fan? Sorry Just-a-sip, I don't follow what you're describing in your post - I'm an electronics dumbass and that's why I'm using a ready-made Chinese controller. I'm clueless as to how to make it work off the same circuit as the controller. I would just like to be able to plug the adapter/transformer into a separate 110V service outlet and run the fan separately.

Thanks,
S-C

[Prairiepiss]

Yes get a cheap 12v dc power adapter. And wire it to the fan. You will need to make sure you get the polarity correct. Most adapters don't have different color wires at the end. Usually just black. If you do hook it up backwards. It will just run backwards. And the blades are optimized to run in the direction indicated on the fan.

[S-Cackalacky]

Yes get a cheap 12v dc power adapter. And wire it to the fan. You will need to make sure you get the polarity correct. Most adapters don't have different color wires at the end. Usually just black. If you do hook it up backwards. It will just run backwards. And the blades are optimized to run in the direction indicated on the fan.

Thanks Mr. P - didn't realize about the polarity. I think I got it now.

S-C

[just-a-sip]

exactly as P said,

ill see if i can explain what i did.

for me i had 220v coming into my box. it went to a step down transformer that went to my my solid state relay. that gave me usable 110 in my box for the fan and my volt meter.

from here is where you would be starting...

i took the 110 wires and twisted them around the prongs of an old phone charger (your better off opening the case and wiring directly rather then using the prongs) the phone charger will also be a step down transformer that will turn your 110Vac to usable 12V dc for the fan.
use the cables that you would normally plug into your phone and splice them together with the wires coming off the fan. and bobs your uncle

as PP said there is no way you could mess this up because if you wire it backwards the fan will just spin backwards. i did this at first and just felt the air coming off the fan, it should be blowing into the heat sink not drawing away. i switched it around and almost a year later im still cranking.

[S-Cackalacky]

exactly as P said,

ill see if i can explain what i did.

for me i had 220v coming into my box. it went to a step down transformer that went to my my solid state relay. that gave me usable 110 in my box for the fan and my volt meter.

from here is where you would be starting...

i took the 110 wires and twisted them around the prongs of an old phone charger (your better off opening the case and wiring directly rather then using the prongs) the phone charger will also be a step down transformer that will turn your 110Vac to usable 12V dc for the fan.
use the cables that you would normally plug into your phone and splice them together with the wires coming off the fan. and bobs your uncle

as PP said there is no way you could mess this up because if you wire it backwards the fan will just spin backwards. i did this at first and just felt the air coming off the fan, it should be blowing into the heat sink not drawing away. i switched it around and almost a year later im still cranking.

Nope, don't matter how many different ways you say it, I'm still a dumbass.

Just sayin',
S-C

[just-a-sip]

Nope, don't matter how many different ways you say it, I'm still a dumbass.

Just sayin',
S-C

well i tried lol. hope someone can explain it better for you. and don't fret i was a dumb ass about it as well. i was just lucky enough that i work in a place that has electrical engineers that were able to look at what i was trying to do and were like... TO FREAKING EASY. they gave me most of the parts and then told me exactly how to put it together. about half way through the process it clicked as to why i was doing it the way they showed.

[iDrinkWash]

You know, they do sell 110v fans... K.I.S.S., right?

http://www.amazon.com/Thermocool-Axial- ... s=110v+fan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


IDrinkWash

[wv_cooker]

S-Cack
First are you hooking this to just 110 or are you going to use 220 and just want to pull out 110 to convert for your fan? If it was mentioned I missed it sorry.
Second the paste you are talking about is called Dielectric Grease and yes it will help your equipment last longer.

[S-Cackalacky]

S-Cack
First are you hooking this to just 110 or are you going to use 220 and just want to pull out 110 to convert for your fan? If it was mentioned I missed it sorry.
Second the paste you are talking about is called Dielectric Grease and yes it will help your equipment last longer.

I'll be running the controller on 110. I have a drawer full of old adapters - hopefully one of them will be 12V. For now at least, I think I'll just run the fan off of a separate 110 service.

We don't get to town much, but I plan to look for a book something like "Electronics for Dummies". When I try to read something like that big controller thread here on the forums, it just stains my brain. Like listening to someone speak a foreign language that I don't understand.

Just-a-sip, thanks for trying. Maybe someone will stumble upon this and get some benefit from what you've written here. Maybe one day I'll even understand it myself.

Thanks all,
S-C

[wv_cooker]

This is the scr that you purchased Correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10000W-220v-Adj ... 0716566%26
Give me a few hours and I will try to get you a drawing and maybe a pic of a phone charger taken apart that can help you understand. Don't get discouraged it's pretty simple.

[S-Cackalacky]

This is the scr that you purchased Correct?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10000W-220v-Adj ... 0716566%26
Give me a few hours and I will try to get you a drawing and maybe a pic of a phone charger taken apart that can help you understand. Don't get discouraged it's pretty simple.

Yep, that's the one. WV, if you want to post something about how it works, that's OK by me. Even if I still don't understand it, it will at least be here for someone else. Just be aware that even if I have to resort to some butt simple method, I am confident that I will be able to supply power to the fan. It might not be the most elegant solution, but I will get it done. I did find what appears to be a suitable 12V adapter on ebay for $7 w/free shipping. I'll wait for your response before I order it.

I went to Radio Shack and bought a tube of thermal paste for the heatsink. Some one here said they got it for $2, someone else said $5. I paid $8 including tax. Oh well. I put the paste on and secured it with the screws. Turned out OK I guess. All I need now is a suitable box and maybe a 110V wall type outlet for the output side. With the new heatsink and fan attached, it's a pretty clunky looking thing, but I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do to secure it in a box.

Thanks again,
S-C

[wv_cooker]

Ok no laughing at the paint drawing but let's get you to understand how it works then you can put it together. Here we go -

controller.jpg

Ok as I hope you can see you bring a line into your box at least 12-2 extension cord type wire strip out several inches of the wire inside your box. You should then have a black wire, a white wire and a copper wire with no coating. First hook the black wire to your switch. Then run a black wire from the other screw on your switch to your controller where it says ac in and hook it to the + side. Now here is the tricky parts get 2 additional pieces of the white Wire only strip enough of each end to make your connections tie them to the end of the white wire coming in by using a wire nut. Then connect one to the - side of the controller right beside the black wire. Now the switch that I am going to show a pic of in a minute will have a hole in the back of it where you can hook another black wire get a piece of the black wire and connect it there. this Black wire and the additional white wire that you have left make the power connection to your phone charger. I will show you how to connect it a little later I need to take one apart and get a pic first. The 2 wires that come out of the charger and normally go to your phone, you cut the end off and connect them to the red and black wire from your fan. I am assuming that you have a cpu fan that connects to your heat sink. Don't forget to drill some holes directly behind the fan so that it can draw air into the box and through the fan. Now get another piece of the 12 - 2 extension cord type wire long enough to go out of your box and down to the heating element, strip out enough to reach through the other side of the box. Take the copper wire without the coating, get you 1 more short piece of it if you have a metal box if not it doesn't matter. connect those 2 pieces to the one that came in from the other side by using a wire nut. Then if you have a metal box connect the tail that you have left over to the green ground screw in the back of the box. When you actually get your box I can lead you through this part. Connect the other end to your element and there you go. When you get all of your parts if you can get a pic or 2 I can lead you through it easily. Last but not least I would recommend getting a couple small bus bars to go in your box and I can show you how to hook your hot to 1 and ground to the other and then connect your charger to that for power. The small bars make it much easier than using wire nuts and you can hook up other things then if you want such as a amp meter. The next pdf file is a sheet on switches, you want the very top one.

switches.pdf

Here is a couple pics of bus bars

bus bars.jpg

Hope this helps and feel free to ask as many questions as needed. I'll get you a pic of the inside of a phone charger.

[wv_cooker]

Quick note on the switches in the pdf file you want the top one in a 20amp single pole switch. also if you would decide on bus bars get the smallest you can find probably at radio shack.

[S-Cackalacky]

You know, they do sell 110v fans... K.I.S.S., right?

http://www.amazon.com/Thermocool-Axial- ... s=110v+fan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


IDrinkWash

That would be a good option. With shipping it would cost around $14 - not bad at all. But then, I alread have the 12V fan and the adapter I'm looking at is less than $7 w/free shipping. I'll definitely look around some more and see if I can find the 110V cheaper.

Thanks for posting the link.
S-C

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks WV, I just read through it once and it does seem that I may be able to follow it. I'm guessing the switch is just there to completely kill the power instead of trying to do it by turning the power down with the control knob - correct? About the 12-2 wiring - I have a 25 feet, 14-3 extension cable that I currently have connected directly to my heating element. I was planning to cannabalize it for the wiring I need for the controller. It's rated for 110V, 15A. My element running on 110V is 1375W drawing around 12A at full power. I've run the boiler with that cable a few times and didn't get any heat up of the cord. Do you think it will be OK to use it?

About the phone charger - I don't think I have one. Would a regular 12V DC adapter serve the same purpose. If so, could I wire the 110 directly to the plug prongs and wrap them real good with rubber insulating tape?

The bus bars - I'm assuming you connect the 110 power in to one terminal and anything you connect to the other terminals on the bar will draw from that power source - correct? If so, it would seem to be a better solution than the wire nuts.

Hey, I might just be able to do this!

Just sayin',
S-C
Edit: BTW - what about the 110V fan in iDrinkWash's link? Would that work better - that is, eliminate the need for the 12V DC adapter? The description didn't state the Amperage, but it does state that it is only 18W. I'm assuming that as long as the total draw on the 110 input is less than 15 total Amps, it should be OK - correct? If you think it will work OK in the context of this project, I might go ahead and spring for the cost of it. Would be one less point of failure.

[wv_cooker]

You know, they do sell 110v fans... K.I.S.S., right?

http://www.amazon.com/Thermocool-Axial- ... s=110v+fan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


IDrinkWash

That would be a good option. With shipping it would cost around $14 - not bad at all. But then, I alread have the 12V fan and the adapter I'm looking at is less than $7 w/free shipping. I'll definitely look around some more and see if I can find the 110V cheaper.

Thanks for posting the link.
S-C

With that fan you do not need anything to stepdown it is 110v just hook it up,

[wv_cooker]

Thanks WV, I just read through it once and it does seem that I may be able to follow it. I'm guessing the switch is just there to completely kill the power instead of trying to do it by turning the power down with the control knob - correct? About the 12-2 wiring - I have a 25 feet, 14-3 extension cable that I currently have connected directly to my heating element. I was planning to cannabalize it for the wiring I need for the controller. It's rated for 110V, 15A. My element running on 110V is 1375W drawing around 12A at full power. I've run the boiler with that cable a few times and didn't get any heat up of the cord. Do you think it will be OK to use it?

About the phone charger - I don't think I have one. Would a regular 12V DC adapter serve the same purpose. If so, could I wire the 110 directly to the plug prongs and wrap them real good with rubber insulating tape?

The bus bars - I'm assuming you connect the 110 power in to one terminal and anything you connect to the other terminals on the bar will draw from that power source - correct? If so, it would seem to be a better solution than the wire nuts.

Hey, I might just be able to do this!

Just sayin',
S-C

Well yep the switch is to be able to turn it off and whats 4 or 5 bucks for safety.As for 14-2 extension cord I would just recommend 12 -2 just a little extra margin of safety. The cable is 12-2 or 14-2 the green earth ground isn't counted. If you get the 110 fan it's not needed. Let's see the 12v adapter from ebay would probably be fine but if you have to by one I would get a regular stepdown converter from ebay. There just as cheap maybe cheaper and designed to do the job. Let me know and I will post you a link. Yes the bus bars are a far better solution than the wire nuts and you have extra locations for other options if you decide to add to it. See before you know it you'll have that controller. If you wants some links for parts just ask I probably have them saved somewhere.
Glad to help.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks WV, I just read through it once and it does seem that I may be able to follow it. I'm guessing the switch is just there to completely kill the power instead of trying to do it by turning the power down with the control knob - correct? About the 12-2 wiring - I have a 25 feet, 14-3 extension cable that I currently have connected directly to my heating element. I was planning to cannabalize it for the wiring I need for the controller. It's rated for 110V, 15A. My element running on 110V is 1375W drawing around 12A at full power. I've run the boiler with that cable a few times and didn't get any heat up of the cord. Do you think it will be OK to use it?

About the phone charger - I don't think I have one. Would a regular 12V DC adapter serve the same purpose. If so, could I wire the 110 directly to the plug prongs and wrap them real good with rubber insulating tape?

The bus bars - I'm assuming you connect the 110 power in to one terminal and anything you connect to the other terminals on the bar will draw from that power source - correct? If so, it would seem to be a better solution than the wire nuts.

Hey, I might just be able to do this!

Just sayin',
S-C

Well yep the switch is to be able to turn it off and whats 4 or 5 bucks for safety.As for 14-2 extension cord I would just recommend 12 -2 just a little extra margin of safety. The cable is 12-2 or 14-2 the green earth ground isn't counted. If you get the 110 fan it's not needed. Let's see the 12v adapter from ebay would probably be fine but if you have to by one I would get a regular stepdown converter from ebay. There just as cheap maybe cheaper and designed to do the job. Let me know and I will post you a link. Yes the bus bars are a far better solution than the wire nuts and you have extra locations for other options if you decide to add to it. See before you know it you'll have that controller. If you wants some links for parts just ask I probably have them saved somewhere.
Glad to help.

I guess I was editing my last post as you were posting this. My edit was about the 110V fan and you pretty much answered my question. I'll try the flea market for the 12 guage extension cord. Otherwise, I might need to use the 14 guage for now.

Enough for now. Let me absorb some of this and I'll get back to you. Your help is greatly appreciated. You have a considerable amount of patience.

Thanks,
S-C