Wasn't trying to make VINEGAR!?

[Hobbyprone]

Hello all,

Like this forum finally signed up. Okay read and browsed all safety and great information from all. Maybe this will help others out because I havent found any specifics on this. Five days in got 5 gallons of banana apple brandy with some sugar yeast basic recipe. Also one gallon of rum sugar water yeast. Okay anyways got a terrible vinegar smell. I realize its infected but I put quite a bit of effort being novice to this and would hate to see it all ruined six different jugs guess the air spread it even though I got a "home made ballon airlock" for the time being (dont laugh too hard still building up my skills and equipment!) Can I run this when its done working? Im afraid of the bitterness. Or should I ajust the ph pevel having notging on hand except household materials? Any help advice is welcome thanks in advance great forum by the way!

-Hobby

[rumbuff]

Okay, before you get roasted by the forum in general.... Too many times people start by saying they've read and read and read.. but then they ask a question that would've been answered by reading. I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's not one of the tried and true recipes. And then further that guess by saying that you've used 6 1 gallon jugs to ferment in. How much sugar? What kind of nutrients? Temps, yeast, etc? I don't intend to be mean, but I would recommendt a tried and true recipe, in a more functional size, and a little more info as to what you're going for, and what equipment you have.

As to the vineger smell, vineger is produced when ethanol is converted to acetic acid. There's nothing you can do, and it's too late already. Might be able to have some balsamic in a while?

[MDH]

If it smells like vinegar you have too much exposure to oxygen. That is why carboys are closed only with airlocks, because CO2 stops vinegar forming bacteria from dominating the ferment.

[Hobbyprone]

Roast me! I gotcha I do understand the conversion of ethanol to vinegar. I did some further research googled it and found out the conversion process for common vinegars who knew. I have tried distillers forum hit the search bar and found nothing thus posting to seek help. No not a tried n true I had seen those. My recipe consisted 50% apple 25% pear 25% peach about 10 lbs also 5 lbs brown 5 lbs white sugar all fruit crushed sugar dissolved put in 5 gallon jugs (yes plastic thoroughly cleaned know it aint the best just what I got) yeast activated set 5 days. My 6th rum batch was sugar brown and white cant quite remember the recipe written down dont have it by me. Needless to say sugar dissolved in hot water cooled and yeast added. Turned to vinegar as well. So too late alright. Rookie mistake. Now more information on the correct process to avoid this mistake please? I think it would make a decent batch but where did it go wrong? Do oxygen possibly get in and start the vinegar process? It wasnt brim filled yes, I almost forgot sat 12 hours open before adding yeast going by a recipe on here I took that idea. Maybe thats where it started? Distillers yeast as well. Thats all I can think of.

-Hobby

[Jimbo]

No roasting bud, good to see people diving in. I started same way youre doing. Here's some ideas. vinegar comes from acetobacter bacteria, which forms acetic acid, vinegar. Did you sterilize everything that touched the juice? buckets, spoons, grinders, press, jugs, etc. If you dont have any of the fancy sterilization stuff, starsan or iodophor, you can use bleach. 1/2 cup per 5 gallons. wash everything and soak in the bleach water, then rinse carefully with clean water. Did any of your fruit have rotten spots. Aceto sets in when fruit flys are busy. THey carry the shit on their tiny legs. You gotta cut off the rotten spots, and in general stay away from wind falls. Fruit on the ground goes bad really fast. Did you wash your fruit. a good rinsing in a bucket, banging the fruit together to sort of wash scrub a bit is recomended. A good yeast then pitched right, 1 packet per 5 gallons. EC-1118 is a good one, but any wine yeast will work.

Note cider finishes dry and tart, can fool yo ualittle like its vinegar. But if you have vinegar for sure, ya cant run it except maybe to clean out yoru still good.

good luck.

[Hobbyprone]

Well Jimbo, got some things to look over great advice we can try this again think Ill go with something simpler starting off. seems I jumped in the deep end with no lifeguard. Ha Ive always been that way then have to take three steps back. Think Ill start fresh with new jugs another look on this then " ahhh hell it aint that techincal" when in fact there are a few things to overlook. Tried n true with some fresh clean medical equipment it is.

-Hobby

[MDH]

You can distill a vinegar tainted batch anyway. Vinegar usually comes in with tails if it doesn't turn to ethyl acetate during distillation. If it smells like vinegar it may very well be only vinegar at the surface, and the rest of the mash/wash is actually acceptable. Try discarding the top and then distilling what is underneath.

[Hobbyprone]

Okay Ill do that no harm in trying thanks for the advice earlier as well.

[aj2456]

sounds like stuff for the cleaning runs

next time sterilizer everything and if leaving to cool cover with some foil or something to keep the fruit flies out (actively carry the bacteria) that and champagne yeast- actively kills/outcompetes the nastys

also bleach the fermentors them bacteria tend to hang around

[Hobbyprone]

Haha yep "I was going for a good red wine vinegar" thats what Ill tell em! Is distillers yeast okay if Im going for a corn based batch? Kind of what I got on hand that or bread yeast never really thought thatd be "The thing to use" just my opinion know my process isnt solid but trying to use the most of what I have to work with.

[CuWhistle]

I make Apple Cider Vinegar and it can sometimes take weeks to convert when I'm doing it deliberately. What you have there may not be vinegar, yet!

[OBX Phantom]

Yes to the bread yeast for a corn based recipe. In fact you will find that bread yeast is recommended quite a bit around here. I use it all the time myself. In fact bread yeast can handle up to around 14% alcohol, but it is best to try and and stay around 2% or below for your ferments. When you try to go higher than 2% it tends to stress the yeast, and stressed yeast tends to put off more off flavors.... Good luck!!!

[goose eye]

yup you catch it in time you can still charge it.

you got mother 1 inch thick then It vinegar for Christmas
you gonna kick it over make sure you lime it down


so im tole

[CuWhistle]

Yes to the bread yeast for a corn based recipe. In fact you will find that bread yeast is recommended quite a bit around here. I use it all the time myself. In fact bread yeast can handle up to around 14% alcohol, but it is best to try and and stay around 2% or below for your ferments. When you try to go higher than 2% it tends to stress the yeast, and stressed yeast tends to put off more off flavors.... Good luck!!!

@OBX:- 2% must be a typo is it?? Wouldn't be worth the effort. I go for 8 - 10%.

[MDH]

Yes to the bread yeast for a corn based recipe. In fact you will find that bread yeast is recommended quite a bit around here. I use it all the time myself. In fact bread yeast can handle up to around 14% alcohol, but it is best to try and and stay around 2% or below for your ferments. When you try to go higher than 2% it tends to stress the yeast, and stressed yeast tends to put off more off flavors.... Good luck!!!

2%? I believe he means 9%. Or 11% for lower temperature ferments...

The only time I ferment to 2% is when I'm fermenting rowan berry or something else obscure!

Also, take goose eye's advice. You can distill it once "as vinegar" then add a whole bunch of something basic (Lyme, Potash, Lye etc). This will get you acetate salts and alcohol. Distilling it again will yield mostly alcohol.

[Shae]

One of the easiest way to get this infection is via fruit flies. If you get them caught in your mix it can spoil really quickly.

[Prairiepiss]

Goose said if you gona kick it over. I take that as gona dump it out in the yard. And the lime is to cover where you dumped it. So the vinegar mother don't spread.

[shadylane]

Hobbyprone
Just a thought.
When a fermentation is done, it often has a sour taste similar to vinegar.
My vinegar failures all had big, blubbery bubbles floating on top.
And, I'd let the fermentation set long enough for the bacteria to take over.

Best advise I can give. If your not sure, run it through the still.
At worst the still just got a cleaning run, at best that infected wash might make some fine shine.
Reality will probably be some where in the middle. What the hell, it will be a learning experience.

[OBX Phantom]

Sorry folks... Yes 2% is a typo, I meant 12%

[BillHoo]

So, did you run it?

You might have gotten something good. Let's hear about it.

[seasider62]

just left friends house, he ask if I wanted his wash UJSSM made 4 years ago! open lids wash wash dark and smelled like vinegar, tasted it and tasted just like balsamic vinegar. should I clean my rig with it or dump it out . Thanks

[TXChiliMayo]

just left friends house, he ask if I wanted his wash UJSSM made 4 years ago! open lids wash wash dark and smelled like vinegar, tasted it and tasted just like balsamic vinegar. should I clean my rig with it or dump it out . Thanks

I’m no expert, but if it’s vinegar, tastes good, and is already 4 years aged, I would barrel it in a barrel you don’t care about anymore and let it oak. A fine aged vinegar is some of the best tasting syrupy goodness out there, and you are already 4 years aged off-oak!

[jonnys_spirit]

I do some small batch vinegars too and it’s good stuff for a salad with a dash of oil but I haven’t done a UJ vinegar. +1 on barreling or oaking as long as it hasn’t molded.

Good luck!
-j

[seasider62]

really wasn't trying to make vinegar. just forgot the 6 5gal of ujssm ferment put behind wood stove and got stuff piled on them. in garage. nobody check until recenently. NO MOLD! Guess will have a lot of vinegar for salads'