Flute perforated plates plus section with ceramic packing

[Copperjohn]

I am in the midst of a six plate flute build (4 inch) and I had a thought/question that i am sure is not original but I couldn't find it in the forum. I wonder what the effect of a section of ceramic packing would be prior to rising through the plates.

Are there any calculations that can be made for ceramic packing and its equivalency to plates? For instance X inches of ceramic packing = how many plates?

Any thoughts?

By the way...this is my first post so I would like to say hello.

[Prairiepiss]

Welcome aboard. The welcome center is the best place to say hello. And give us an intro.

Packed sections work best above the plates below the dephlegmater. I would probably use lava rocks over ceramic whatevers. Yes its been done. And more and more are going this route. Look around for hybrid stills.

Now I would like to ask. Why 6 plates? What are you planning to make with it?

[emptyglass]

Plus 1.

The packing wont do a lot under the plates. Lava rock rocks!

[Copperjohn]

Prairiepiss---

I decided on 6 plates for several reasons not the least of which is I don't know what I am doing.

But I already have a 4inch, 4 plate plate flute and I wanted to increase my proof on a first run. I can't seem to get my 4 plate above 155 proof? Second I though it would be fun to build.

[googe]

That's quite low for a 4 Plater John, you should be getting 90% +. I get 90~93% with 3 plates. What rig have you got?, home made or brought?. What sort of plates ect?.

[Copperjohn]

Googe---
I bought it from Hillbillystills. It has perforated plates. It's quite consistent in its production of 155 proof, but no more.

[Copperjohn]

Emptyglass….

Why do you say it doesn't do much below the plates? Wouldn't ceramic raschig rings or marble packing it help to increase proof?

[Prairiepiss]

Packing works best above the plates. Where the plates can supply the packing with a higher ABV vapors. Packing needs reflux to work. And the returning reflux off the bottom plate has very little alcohol in it.

Basically plates feed packing much better then packing feeds plates.

I'm more worried that your not getting what you should out of your still now. A 6 plater isn't the answer.

[Jkhippie]

Hey, CJ. I haven't seen the rig you have (my phone won't load the website), but I'm assuming the deflag is detachable? You could just fashion two plate segments (or packed section) to add?

Either way, the four plates you're working with should be performing better than ~155pr. Maybe you could describe your process (recipe, wash ABV, heat source, take-off speed, etc.)?

[Copperjohn]

JKhippie---

Multiple recipes. I have done several sugar washes with turbo yeast, and I have done several corn mash recipes with other yeasts plus a bit of amyloglucosidase. I have done about 9 runs through the flute and everyone of them has produced 155 proof no matter the recipe variation.

My heat source is electric (TG-5500).
I don't know how to measure the ABV in my mash if thats what your asking, I am only measuring my proof output.
What is a take-off speed?

Yes my deflag is detachable and I thought about fabricating an additional plate segment but I decided to do a full build. Thought it would be fun, interesting and educational.

Lastly…my suspicion for the low proof output is that the deflag on my flute is not efficient enough. I can never seem to get it into 100% reflux. There is always some product dripping past.

[Prairiepiss]

Lastly…my suspicion for the low proof output is that the deflag on my flute is not efficient enough. I can never seem to get it into 100% reflux. There is always some product dripping past.

Ding ding ding.

How much heat are you throwing at that thing?
What are you using for cooling water?

A cm still needs to also be ran as a pm. Power management.

I have a feeling you are throwing way to much heat into it. You should be turning the heat down to where product doesn't come out. With coolant flow at max through the dephlegmater.

[acfixer69]

+1 PP
Also you are going to have a lot of smearing through your cuts. Your controller should be turned down to 16-18 amps with a 5500 watt element.

AC

[Copperjohn]

Ah ha! Thank you for the tip! I was quite disappointed at the output. Happy to know it can be remedied.

I'll slow it down next go round. I was throwing as much heat as I could as quickly as I could, because I assumed the Deflag would control all I needed to control.

[wv_cooker]

Copperjohn the still you have is advertised at being able to produce 90% abv. So +1 with PP I would say you are pushing to much power for it to achieve it's maximum efficiency. And also agree with Empty and PP that packing under plates doesn't return enough alcohol back through the packing in the form of high abv reflux for the packing to do it's job creating an unstable and very fiddly column to run. Packing above the plates becomes very efficient and will do very nicely at achieving your goal.

Ceramic raschig rings are one of the lower rated forms of packing, copper mesh or even stainless scrubbers are better and better yet would be Lava rock. There are videos on the manufacturer of your stills website that show how to properly run their stills and they advertise that they send a video with them. As for the six plate you could just add 2 plates to the still you have and achieve the same as building a new one. The more plates you add the more flavor will be lost to the process so you need to decide what trade off's you are willing to accept . Hope this helps.

[Copperjohn]

WV cooker---

Thanks for the advice. I was unaware that rachig rings were a lower rated form of packing.

Everyone keeps mentioning lava rock. Does it do something additional than the other types of packing or does it just do it better?

[wv_cooker]

There is not much documented information on Lava Rock other than it was tested in a thread by Mash Rookie and I remember a few others had tried it before but I can't remember who (sorry guy's) but during that thread Emptyglass and Mash Rookie both tried it with good success. Since that time many others including my self have tried it and it is considerably more efficient at doing it's job than Raschig rings, copper etc. There is also a new style packing called SPP that is very efficient but no one seems to make it for a 4" column. SPP is good for 2" and 3" columns at this time.

[Copperjohn]

What prevents it from being used in a 4 inch column?

[Copperjohn]

How large a slice of my 4 inch pipe should I use to fabricate a section for packing?

[acfixer69]

What prevents it from being used in a 4 inch column?

The problem is channeling of liquid in 4". Lava rock works excellent in 4" columns I am making a 3 foot section to run over a single plate. Have run a two foot section over 2 plates and got 94% an a liter/15 mins take off.

AC

[wv_cooker]

+1 with Acfixer there is a problem with channeling in 4" and there is also an issue that SPP likes to run best near flooding. I don't think anyone has hit upon a size that works efficiently in 4". Odin and Dad300 are our resident experts on SPP and maybe they can better answer. Lava rock works well and is efficient in a 4" column.

[Copperjohn]

Then lava rocks it is! I have a 4 plate and will have a 6 plate so... I think maybe an 18 inch section of lava rock. Whatta ya think?

Also...I am a neophyte so the verbiage is a little foreign. When you say "take off", do you mean how quickly product is produced? Is it measured per liter?

[F6Hawk]

Yes. Take off is your still's output. Measure however you wish, but many use ml and liters.

[acfixer69]

Then lava rocks it is! I have a 4 plate and will have a 6 plate so... I think maybe an 18 inch section of lava rock. Whatta ya think?

Also...I am a neophyte so the verbiage is a little foreign. When you say "take off", do you mean how quickly product is produced? Is it measured per liter?

Take off= rate =volume/time of collected spirit.

18 inch will work but you only want 1 or 2 plates under it. The packed section works best when fed a low wine ABV. I only use the one valved plate under my packed section.

AC

[Prairiepiss]

I don't know that I would go through the trouble of building the 6 plate. 6 plates is really over kill. Unless you really want to? Does your 4 plate have a removable dephlegmater? If yes then if you add a 24" packed section above it. Then will have all the still you would ever need.

[Prairiepiss]

If your dephlegmater isn't removable. I would not build the 6 plate. Build build a hybrid stand alone. With two plates and 24" of packed section. Use the 4 plate for flavored spirits and the hybrid for vodka/neutral

[Copperjohn]

Mr. Piss,

My deflag is removable but its too late to stop the build. Already deep into it. Why do you say 6 plates is overkill? I've seen stills with 6, 8, and 10 plates. Maybe I have a bit of still envy.

[Prairiepiss]

Just un needed. Especially if adding a packed section.

What have you gotten done so far.

[googe]

yep, as we speak I'm running 3 plates with a 300mm lava rock section and it's coming out at 93~94%, tasting and smelling very nice.

[Copperjohn]

Prairiepiss----

Here is what I got dun

Deflag is 99% done
Column has sight glasses soldered but holes not drilled yet
Plate tree done
Condenser 70% done
Parrot not started

[Copperjohn]

Googe---

Now that sounds nice!