Vacuum still

[Groddi]

This is to be an automated still in the future, my first build. So be nice

Vacuum, All 316 stainless steel, few meters of copper, fittings and then some.

Pictures, here we go!

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Since I can only upload 6 pictures per post, another one will follow.

[Groddi]

Getting complicated..

More pictures!

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More to come!

[Groddi]

And then some..

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I ain't done yet! Stay tuned.

[Jkhippie]

Ya know, if you'd built a Boka, you'd be done by now.

Seriously, though, could you post a walk-through about all this...stuff...you have here? Looks really neat, but I never finnishd colegge.

[Groddi]

Ya know, if you'd built a Boka, you'd be done by now.

Seriously, though, could you post a walk-through about all this...stuff...you have here? Looks really neat, but I never finnishd colegge.

Sure thing, I will post more info about the beast. But I don't have time right now, leaving for work.

Will post to morrow.

[Halfbaked]

I have heard for vacuum stills before and the pics are interesting. Supposed to produce vapor at lower temps. Is that 2 kegs welded togather or 2 1/2 or 3? How tall is it? I would not figure that this is a first still, what have you done before? Seems like a lot of work. Keep pics and info coming.

[Hydroxyethan]

Impressive! This is going to be a REALLY interesting thread, you have got my attention, to say the least...

Wouldn´t you, IMHO, need some sort of sub-zero cooling liquid for the product condensor? A freezer-unit, or dry-ice cooled acetone e.g.? That´s what my physical understanding tells me... What pressures are you aiming at?

Really looking forward to seeing that monster finished and in action!

Hydroxyethan

[kaziel]

Nice thread. Tagged.

[pfshine]

No need for subzero cooling just colder than the boiling point. Tap water would be just fine.

[bellybuster]

I'm sorry but this one's given me wood.... oops, too much


I am curious on the condensing too, release of vacuum??? Wouldn't take much more than ambient temp, probably less. vacuum boiling is less than average room temp???

[Groddi]

Ok, some info you say?

My tap water is, cold: 5 degrees celcius, hot: 80 degrees celcius

And by lowering the pressure inside the still, the boiling point falls dramatically.
- in my case when I set the vacuum point to -0.8 or -23 INHG I can boil ethanol under 40 degrees, wich is neat because my tap water is that hot, almost no electricity is needed except running the compressor (I am using a basic fridge compressor at the moment) and tap water is really cheap on this side of the planet.

When it comes to the condenser, I don't need that much of cold water since it is that cold, even if it wasn't you wouldn't need much of it since the vapor is around 38 degrees celcius.

As seen on the pictures there are 6 meters of 15mm copper running through the boiler where the hot water (80 degrees) passes through, but since I am aiming at 38-40 degrees to boil the wash, I use extremely small amount of hot water as well. The solenoid valve (the big blue one) opens every time the temperature drops 0,1 degrees below my set point (38-40 degrees) and stays open for 2-3 minutes until the temperature reaches my set point plus extra 0,2 degrees (in differential)

The colomn is packed with rachi-rings and scrubbers, first I tried cooling the colomn with cold water but it was way to cold, that is why I wrapped copper around the condenser (wich is extremely cold) and led the copper through the cooling pipes of the colomn, works great.

After the condenser comes my "what's going on tube/pipe" where I can see activity/flow, and even when the tails start to come I see it in the tube.

Then there are 2x500mL tanks wich I need to make cuts, and the Fore shots tanks (wich is 150mL)
I control the flow of liquid with one button (1-2-3) 1 being Fore shots tank, 2 and 3 my cuts tanks, when I choose 1, 2 and 3 is closed, and so on, but when I switch from 2 to 3: solenoid valve cuts of the liquid running to tanks 2, another solenoid valve cuts of vacuum to the tanks and opens for positive pressure (opposit to vacuum) - on the bottom of the cuts-tanks are one-way valves wich closes when vacuum is on and opens when vacuum is cut off, there by when I switch between them thay empty them selfs automatically.

The boiler takes 21L (exact volum of my washes)
The second big tanks (underneath the boiler is split in to parts, the upper is for quick-runs (where all the ethanol goes to one place) the second tanks is only for distilled water.
Each of these 2 tanks are 12,5L

Did I miss something?

[Groddi]

PS I can control the boiling point by setting whatever vacuum pressure fits.

And I have reached roughly 97% pure ethanol on a run (theoretically you can reach 100% whith vacuum, but you don't want that..)

[Hydroxyethan]

Ok, I grasp it I think... What were the approximate costs for the regulative set-up?

Fridge compressors are surprisingly powerful, either way, already used them for other applications successfully...

Congrats on your build!

H.

[Groddi]

Ok, I grasp it I think... What were the approximate costs for the regulative set-up?

Fridge compressors are surprisingly powerful, either way, already used them for other applications successfully...

Congrats on your build!

H.

Thanks, it's been fun... But I think I will never completely finish, I tinker a lot.

The cost, we'll since I'm not in the US it's kind of difficult to answer, but if I were to build this again for someone else, in US dollars the prize would be around 4 000$ (converted from another currency)

[Hydroxyethan]

So that would make it around 3000 €, quite a bit of cash and out of my limit right now

One other thing keeps me wondering: Wouldn´t it make sense to apply a constant amount of energy to the wash though the use of a regulated valve for example? Using wash temps as reference, even if narrowly regulated, should have effects on the amount of vapor produced/intrasystem pressure and thus let the boiling point and column oscillate, which wouldn´t be good for the HETP? I didn´t think that completely through though, might be wrong...

your curious Hydroxyethan (infected by the idea, already searching for components he can savage...)

[Groddi]

So that would make it around 3000 €, quite a bit of cash and out of my limit right now

One other thing keeps me wondering: Wouldn´t it make sense to apply a constant amount of energy to the wash though the use of a regulated valve for example? Using wash temps as reference, even if narrowly regulated, should have effects on the amount of vapor produced/intrasystem pressure and thus let the boiling point and column oscillate, which wouldn´t be good for the HETP? I didn´t think that completely through though, might be wrong...

your curious Hydroxyethan (infected by the idea, already searching for components he can savage...)

It might be better in some ways, but I don't see the point since I get so high percentage level of alcohol after just one run, and if you think about it if you were to apply similar temperature as the wanted boiling point, you would have a constant flow/spill of water, so in my opinion I'm going to say no?

Plus the difference from heating to cooling is 0,3 degrees Celsius, doesn't matter I you ask me.

[Groddi]

So that would make it around 3000 €, quite a bit of cash and out of my limit right now

One other thing keeps me wondering: Wouldn´t it make sense to apply a constant amount of energy to the wash though the use of a regulated valve for example? Using wash temps as reference, even if narrowly regulated, should have effects on the amount of vapor produced/intrasystem pressure and thus let the boiling point and column oscillate, which wouldn´t be good for the HETP? I didn´t think that completely through though, might be wrong...

your curious Hydroxyethan (infected by the idea, already searching for components he can savage...)

It might be better in some ways, but I don't see the point since I get so high percentage level of alcohol after just one run, and if you think about it if you were to apply similar temperature as the wanted boiling point, you would have a constant flow/spill of water, so in my opinion I'm going to say no?

Plus the difference from heating to cooling is 0,3 degrees Celsius, doesn't matter I you ask me.

Oh yeah, when I said 4.000$ that was me estimating building material and work hours, if one were to re build and sell to another. But fittings, solenoid valves and material for the controller is really expensive, and then you could of course do a good vacuum still with out spending as much money, but when you are going automatic thing get expensive!

[Groddi]

Found more pictures, is it possible to post videos here, like you post pictures?

Here am I filling the boiler, using vacuum to suck up sugar wash from the fermenter, no spilling here and there
As seen on the picture, I accidentally broke my sight glass on the boiler... Need to fix that!

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And when I finish a run, I can simply open a ball valve and it goes straight down the drain.

Some one asked how high it was...

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[humbledore]

Good lord man what do you do for a living that you can pull all this off? Engineering background I assume? Very impressive.

[Groddi]

More pictures for your curiosity, som assembly shots from solenoid valve addition.

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I use Cat5 cables very much since the equipment uses not much of power at all.

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Happy holidays!

[Groddi]

Until now the still has only done neutral spirits, tomorrow I am making a berry rum run, and in two weeks two corn whiskey runs, when doing a flavored run I empty out the packing.

[Groddi]

What's cooking doc?

You asked for in action pictures, here we go!

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Cheers!

[Groddi]

More pics, then I think I'm all done, until I build some more...
If you guys have any questions or pointers please, fire away!

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[Cardinalbags]

Now all you gotta do is get an inline sampler feeding a gas chromatograph unit for doing real time analysis of fores, heads and tails so you dont have to push those 1-2-3 buttons......

[Groddi]

Now all you gotta do is get an inline sampler feeding a gas chromatograph unit for doing real time analysis of fores, heads and tails so you dont have to push those 1-2-3 buttons......

How dont you give me any ideas, i might.....

Actually as the setup is ATM, works grate, 150ml fores, and keep collecting until I see tails coming (it becomes milky colored in the sight tube) then I discard what has collected to the tanks that time to faints and it goes in with the next batch (:

[Howling Wolf]

Impressive!

[Groddi]

Impressive!

Thanks

[Groddi]

Forgot to report performance of this thing

Stripping, whiskey and rum runs, running at 56-58 degrees Celsius (boiling water at 61C) I am getting 5-600ml per 10-13 minutes, abv output from 70-50%

Running at 37-39C abv output 95-97% 500ml every 30-35 minutes.

Have no clue what is "normal" on other stills, but I am happy with the results

[Windy City]

WoW Great job & very impressive
Would love to see a video of it in action. Maybe even some plans and drawings it looks awesome.

Windy City

[Groddi]

WoW Great job & very impressive
Would love to see a video of it in action. Maybe even some plans and drawings it looks awesome.

Windy City

Thanks

I will see what I can do about those plans for you