internal reflux still

[jake22si]

From what I have been reading this still should have some modifications done to it to make it more efficient. I did not build this, but it did not cost me anything either. Would be making a variety of beverages with it. Would bypassing the lower cooling tube around the column be a fix for it?

[Hound Dog]

Look for a post by Prairie Piss and check out his signature at the bottom. It will have a link to CM still mods. He has some pretty good insight on this style of rig.

[aj2456]

looks like it will be a decent pot still

but these kinda designs dont work too well at reflux - im presuming the only cooling inside the main column is those two tiny bits of straight copper?

[jake22si]

If I want to use it as a pot still do I have to remove the packing, but still run the water through it?

[jake22si]

Look for a post by Prairie Piss and check out his signature at the bottom. It will have a link to CM still mods. He has some pretty good insight on this style of rig.

I saw this and was what made me ask my original question

[Hound Dog]

I don't know a lot about CM stills, that is why I referred you to PP's signature. That is a good place to start. They are not the most efficient of reflux stills but I have heard PP claim that he still can make some pretty good liquor with one. I would not discount it completely especially if you got it for free. You will just need to do the modifications and learn how to run it. They can just take a little more attention as you will have to pay attention to adjustments as the coolant temperatures start to vary you have to adjust the flow to maintain the reflux.

You will have to see how guys set up the valves to adjust the coolant flow to the reflux and the product cooler. I cannot lead you on that other than to say you probably want a needle valve on the reflux lines as you will need precise control over the flow on a CM style rig.

If you run it as a pot still you don't need to do anything except close off your valves to the coolant flow through the column and run all the coolant trough the product condenser and it will act as a regular pot still. No need to remove the packing since once it gets up to temperature it doesn't really do much without the forced reflux. Besides, once you get the packing to the right density for your reflux applications you won't want to mess with it. Your still will react differently each time you repack it if you don't get it exactly the same each time.

[Prairiepiss]

You can use it as it sits. And make a good drop with it. But its not gona make a neutral.

Now you want to make a variety of stuff. Doesn't tell me what? If all you are after is flavored drinks like whiskey rum or brandies. I would remove the lower through tube. You could do this by just cutting it off on the condenser side. So the cooling water supply can be hooked right to the bottom of product condenser. Now I would do the same to the top through tube. But make it so you can still use it. But separate to then the product condenser. So now you would have a manifold (like in my mod thread) with two valves. From one of those valves to the bottom of the product condenser. And a drain hose off the top of the product condenser. Then off the other valve to the through tube with another drain hose coming off the other end of it. This way you can control each one individually. Now the one through tube won't be enough to give you 100% reflux. But it will be enough to give you some reflux. So you can make higher ABV single run flavored drinks. And with a stripping run a good vodka. Not really a neutral more of an old school grainy vodka. If you added one or two more through tubes at the top close to the other one. Plenty of room above the one that's there. You will want them in a cross patern. This will give you more reflux. And a cleaner Refluxed vodka from a single run. Probably still not a perfect neutral. But a lot closer.

[jake22si]

You can use it as it sits. And make a good drop with it. But its not gona make a neutral.

Now you want to make a variety of stuff. Doesn't tell me what? If all you are after is flavored drinks like whiskey rum or brandies. I would remove the lower through tube. You could do this by just cutting it off on the condenser side. So the cooling water supply can be hooked right to the bottom of product condenser. Now I would do the same to the top through tube. But make it so you can still use it. But separate to then the product condenser. So now you would have a manifold (like in my mod thread) with two valves. From one of those valves to the bottom of the product condenser. And a drain hose off the top of the product condenser. Then off the other valve to the through tube with another drain hose coming off the other end of it. This way you can control each one individually. Now the one through tube won't be enough to give you 100% reflux. But it will be enough to give you some reflux. So you can make higher ABV single run flavored drinks. And with a stripping run a good vodka. Not really a neutral more of an old school grainy vodka. If you added one or two more through tubes at the top close to the other one. Plenty of room above the one that's there. You will want them in a cross patern. This will give you more reflux. And a cleaner Refluxed vodka from a single run. Probably still not a perfect neutral. But a lot closer.

I was thinking of adding a Y shape to the top tube between the condenser and column with a shut off on the left of the Y so with the valve closed it will run only the condenser and with it open it will run through the top of the column also. Does this sound like a good start?

[Prairiepiss]

I would do it as I described.

[jake22si]

I would do it as I described.

Took me a bit to process but this is how I'm reading it. I could run the water in though the bottom of condenser and out the existing piping on top after I bypass the column on the bottom. Then after some manifold building the water would start at the top outside the condenser and run to the bottom into the condenser up the condenser out the top tube and either out before the column or after depending on valve open or closed. Thank you and mostly whiskey

[Prairiepiss]

No doesn't sound right. It's explained much better in the mod thread.

You want the two condensers separate.
The product condenser needs to ne fed in through the bottom and out the top.
The top through tube needs its own feed in and out. With a valve to control how much flow goes through it.

You don't want one condenser feeding the other. Then it will start chasing temps. Each condenser needs its own supply of cool water.

[jake22si]

No doesn't sound right. It's explained much better in the mod thread.

You want the two condensers separate.
The product condenser needs to ne fed in through the bottom and out the top.
The top through tube needs its own feed in and out. With a valve to control how much flow goes through it.

You don't want one condenser feeding the other. Then it will start chasing temps. Each condenser needs its own supply of cool water.

OK, I will study the mod thread a little better, but for whiskey I can go with bypassing the column of the lower tube for now right?

[jake22si]

A little progress, this is probably how it will stay for a while.

[Halfbaked]

The cut off valve should be on top and your colder water should come in the bottom side. The cut off valve will help hold water pressure in the shotgun.

[jake22si]

The cut off valve should be on top and your colder water should come in the bottom side. The cut off valve will help hold water pressure in the shotgun.

I could easily move the shut off to the top to hold pressure, but would I need it if running as a pot still?

[Hound Dog]

The cut off valve should be on top and your colder water should come in the bottom side. The cut off valve will help hold water pressure in the shotgun.

I could easily move the shut off to the top to hold pressure, but would I need it if running as a pot still?

If you are recirculating water with a pump, you are probably just running it wide open while in pot still mode so it wouldn't matter much. If you are running municipal water, you want it on the exit to slow the exit flow and conserve a little water.

The purpose for having the valve on the exit side is to maintain water pressure as HB said in the condenser and make sure you don't get an air space in it so it stays completely full of water at all times.

[jake22si]

got it thanks

[jake22si]

Using the same sweet feed recipe but with backset this time I am getting a much lower abv%. I bypassed the column for the water intake straight Into the lower condenser. My first run I was getting 80% now I'm down to 55-60%?

[Hound Dog]

Using the same sweet feed recipe but with backset this time I am getting a much lower abv%. I bypassed the column for the water intake straight Into the lower condenser. My first run I was getting 80% now I'm down to 55-60%?

Well if you are running it in pot still mode bypassing the reflux condenser that's about where you are going to be. That 80% mark is more along the lines of what you are going to get from a CM reflux setup that is not fine tuned.

[jake22si]

Ok, quick question then. If making just whiskey with this rig, should I go back to the original configuration to get the higher alcohol content and dilute it more or run in pot mode and possibly have to run it twice or just dilute it less? just wondering i guess...

[Hound Dog]

Well, that's a question that is answered by your tastes and what you are making honestly. Personally, I always got a lot of smearing with my pot still. I did not realize that was my problem until I built my LM rig and got better separations. I guess this was beneficial with some All Grain Feed whiskey I made. Right at first I thought it was nasty but I put some toasted oak in the jars and let it sit for two months and it mellowed right out. It has a fine whiskey flavor.

I don't have experience with a CM setup to really advise you on it.

These days I just use my pot to strip with and my LM to distill spirits. I can make my cuts and blend back to my taste, it works pretty good.
But many people make many fine spirits on pot stills. The proof is not so important as the taste. You are going to dilute it to drink anyway so don't concentrate on that as much as getting the cuts right and a good flavor.

Not to be wishy washy but you will just have to play it both ways and see what you like best. I think it will take a bit of effort to learn to run the CM but in the end, if you have one, you might as well do it!

[jake22si]

Thanks for the advice hound dog, I am just starting out but will be building another type soon. I got 10 more gallons bubbling up to try out and just keep on practicing.

[Lonesome Loins]

I have a related, novice question. I have a stone-Nixon still with two valves, the take off and what I assume is called a 'reflux valve' since it controls whether liquid/vapor is directed back to the main column.

I assume that if I want to run this in 'pot still' mode I close the reflux valve and just leave the take off valve open from the beginning of the run.
I also have copper mesh packing in the main column, half above and half of it below where the reflux valve's tube joins the main column.

So, I am interested in knowing the effect of removing the scrubbers vs. running with the reflux valve closed vs. running with either/or; both, or none.

Since I am very new to this, I've tried to keep things simple and avoid running the wash thru multiple 'runs.' I thought I would simply make 'vodka' since I won't have the patience to age this stuff. But I can see I am already getting intrigued by the idea of running in potstill mode to preserve more flavor, then some short term 'aging' with some charcoal and oak chips. Anyway I hope these questions make sense. I'm sure they've been asked before, but I'm not to good about negotiating the search mode on this site.
Been thinking about this while I wait my modified sweet feed/molasses/rye recipe to ferment. It came as a revelation to me that I don't need to spend a lot of $ on a large steel cooker or be limited to my 5 gal. carbuoys. Bot a 20 gal. Brute container for vat fermenting; perfect size for fermenting my wash for a 15.5 gal keg boiler.

[Hound Dog]

I have a related, novice question. I have a stone-Nixon still with two valves, the take off and what I assume is called a 'reflux valve' since it controls whether liquid/vapor is directed back to the main column.

I assume that if I want to run this in 'pot still' mode I close the reflux valve and just leave the take off valve open from the beginning of the run.
I also have copper mesh packing in the main column, half above and half of it below where the reflux valve's tube joins the main column.

So, I am interested in knowing the effect of removing the scrubbers vs. running with the reflux valve closed vs. running with either/or; both, or none.

Since I am very new to this, I've tried to keep things simple and avoid running the wash thru multiple 'runs.' I thought I would simply make 'vodka' since I won't have the patience to age this stuff. But I can see I am already getting intrigued by the idea of running in potstill mode to preserve more flavor, then some short term 'aging' with some charcoal and oak chips. Anyway I hope these questions make sense. I'm sure they've been asked before, but I'm not to good about negotiating the search mode on this site.
Been thinking about this while I wait my modified sweet feed/molasses/rye recipe to ferment. It came as a revelation to me that I don't need to spend a lot of $ on a large steel cooker or be limited to my 5 gal. carbuoys. Bot a 20 gal. Brute container for vat fermenting; perfect size for fermenting my wash for a 15.5 gal keg boiler.

Does your VM have a vent above the reflux condenser? If so I would imagine you would need to keep vapor from escaping there before going into your product condenser for using pot still mode. I would not bother with removing the packing. It does not hurt to leave it in. Without the forced reflux you are not going to strip the flavor out. I found once I got the right density of packing in my LM still, I just left it alone unless I had to mess with it. I knew it would perform right that way.

Just a tip with searching, go to the top of the page here and click the "HD Google search" link. When a new window pops up with "site:http://homedistiller.org/forum" in the search box, leave that there and type what you are searching for after it. It is a much better search engine.

+1 on the Brute trash cans. I have two of the twenty gallon ones I use myself. I mix fifteen gallon batches in them and they work great. I don't really mess with all the tight seals and air locks, I just throw the lid on and check the SG to see when its done.

[Lonesome Loins]

Thanks Hound Dog. Yes on the vent at the top of the condenser. When I ran my first batch last week, It seemed to take so long to heat, I kept experimenting with the reflux valve. Never saw any vapor, but then I never had it all the way open. great idea on Google search. Yeah, the Brute can (I use a translucent white one designed to hold feed) works great. I like the ease of monitoring temp and SG.