Choosing Yeast/Esters in Whiskey

[shinertexas]

Howdy.

I've attempted doing research around this subject, but can't seem to find any answers around the web. I have a few questions regarding pertaining to choosing yeast/yeast care for y'all so bear with me here. This is coming from a guy who knows a bit about yeast in beer, but is trying to figure out the important stuff in whiskey.

1) Esters in whiskey: Do the esters produced in beer fermentation come through in the spirit? What gives a whiskey flavor besides oak tannins/esterification in the barrel and the cuts? I work at a brewery that makes the mash for a local distillery. They told me they use a fast fermenting distiller's yeast so I asked why they cut back on ester production (low growth -> low esterification) and their response was that it all gets cooked off anyways, but I'm inclined to doubt this.

2) Does high ester formation mean a lower alcohol yield than the potential alcohol yield? I understand that esters are a combination of alcohols and organic acids. So, from this does it follow that those ethyl esters could have remained uncombined if you didn't give the yeast a chance to grow much and steal your ethyl alcohol for ester formation?

3) From (1) and (2), do y'all prefer to use/condition a yeast that will produce lots of esters, few esters, or somewhere in between?

Thanks so much. Look forward to hearing back on my first post.

-Rush

[OzKev]

Esters are one of the two compounds that come out with the alcohol early in the process, that we call heads. The other is Acetaldehyde. Once the Esters and Acetaldehyde have dropped back to a level we cannot taste is where we start our hearts cuts.

I would pick a yeast that produces minimal esters so you can compress the heads and maximize the alcohol return.

[shinertexas]

Thanks, OzKev.

My question that follows from your response is, where does most of the flavor in a good whiskey come from aside from barrel ageing and cuts? We know that different grains/malts in a mash have different effects on flavor, so what are the flavor compounds that have these effects?

[Tater Patch Kid]

bump for a day or 2,. anybodie.

[woodshed]

Thanks, OzKev.

My question that follows from your response is, where does most of the flavor in a good whiskey come from aside from barrel ageing and cuts?

Research and experimentation. I see what you are getting at but still suggest the aforementioned.

[Brendan]

You have proposed very good questions, particularly number (1), which I cannot answer?

I can tell you that 60-80% of the flavour is reported to come from the barrel (which involves a million variables)...so the flavours/esters in the distillate form a 'base', as opposed to just packing a vodka. The corn, wheat or barley base gives the distillate some character for the barrel ageing to develop and build upon...

[Jimbo]

Shiner,

Yes esters absolutely come over in distillation. Look at my experiment with differnet yeasts in this years apple brandy here. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7121964

Ive seen interviews with old timer scotch whiskey master distillers where they said they'd love to have the liberty to use a good beer yeast and let it go long to get the extra esters, but cant due to economics and regular consistent availability of yeast. Distillers typically go hot and fast with a clean yeast to get turnover and consistency.

I dont believe increase in esters affects alcohol level. At least i have noticed it at all.

Ive done lots of experimentation with yeasts on brandy and AG whiskies. i keep coming back to clean fermenting beer yeasts, usually US-05. With fruity estery yeasts like Burton and other english beer yeasts there is a nice effect on the whiskey for sure, but it also brings a more 'headsy' flavor that requires bigger cuts, just like my description with the estery yeasts in brandy in the post above.

Its good to experiment. Try lots of yeasts and decide what whiskey you like the best for yourself.

[aj2456]

think for my super deluxe AG whiskey (thats still in the planning stages) i'll be using a mix of s-05 and the more alc tolerant s-04 (will need that to hit 8% anyway)- a few brewers do this also and using some special grains to get the profiles im after (probably varied per 80l) (eg peated) then freeze distill to get the abv for a few spirit runs

this wil hopefully leave me with some distintive different profiles to get blending with (eg a rye one, a wheat one, a peated one etc)

before this though will just be using s-05 to make the sweetfeed bourbons- cleaner seems favoured generally considering JD is charcoal filtered (tastes like oak extract from vodka i made- to me)- if they get stuck some champagne yeast will find its way in there to finish up (the s-05 having made the esters already)