Jimbo's Electric Conversion

[humbledore]

Ha. Well I don't have voltmeter so no worries there. I was going to ask on how you mounted the SCR's to the box. it looks like you use the large nut located on the pot and hung the whole SCR off that. Do you have concerns about weight? I am looking at mine and the way that pot is soldered to the PC board it looks kind of flimsy.

[Jimbo]

yes thats how I did it. Once you wire it all up with them heavy wires and get everything situated its fine.

Note along the front edge of the PCB by the pot, there are hot traces literally right up the edge of the board (dumbasses). If your box is metal put a plastic shim in there to insulate. I cut one from a soft plastic lid and drilled holes in it for the pot shafts to go through.

[humbledore]

Wow, that is a good catch. I will do that, thanks. I probably would have found out the hard way.

[Jimbo]

We call that a smoke test at work. At 240 prolly be a nice bang, you might even have pooped yourself a little.

I admit after i got this thing all wired up and checked the wiring 5 times over, I made the sign of the cross and closed my eyes before flippin the breaker.

[S-Cackalacky]

Wow, that is a good catch. I will do that, thanks. I probably would have found out the hard way.

I guess I was lucky I used a plastic box. But, I must say, getting that SCR mounted in the box was probably the biggest pita of my entire still build. My SCR was a very odd shape after replacing the heatsink with a larger CPU heatsink with it's own fan attached. The fan is actually a blower with a housing that's open on one side where the air exits. I had to position it in the box so that the exit vent of the housing was against the side of box. I drilled a pattern of small holes for the warm air to exit out of the box. With the replacement heatsink, the controller was too heavy to just hang it off the box using the pot (as you did). The fan housing rested on the bottom of the box and I put a couple of narrow, long machine bolts near the front to hold the controller securely in the box. The bolts come up through the bottom of the box and into the existing holes on the corners of the circuit board. I use 4 nuts on each bolt - one to hold the bolt to the box, 2 locked together under the circuit board to hold it at the correct height and one on top to secure the board to the bolt.

That and getting it wired up was a real pain. I have severe neuropathy in my hands and fingers which makes it difficult to even hold a screw driver. I'll be taking it apart at some point to upgrade the wiring from 12 guage to 10 guage - not looking forward to it.

BTW Jimbo - I'm real low tech. I didn't install a volt or amp meter. I have a sharpie mark on the box for where to set my pot knob for spirit runs. At 120V/1375W, I can crank it full open for stripping runs.

S-C

Posted while Jimbo was posting.

[Due51]

I went ahead and cut the 8ga wire leading to the a/c compressor, installed a socket and plugs, mounted it on the poured concrete basement wall, and after making the sign of the cross, threw the breaker. Darkness suddenly fell upon my whole house. Upon further inspection, the uninsulated neutral aluminum strand in the plug made contact with one of the hot lugs and caused a short. I put electrical tape around the strand and the lugs, said a Hail Mary, and threw the breaker again. Hallelujia. No short. Then, I unplugged my compressor, plugged in the heating element, said another prayer, and threw the breaker again. I took my handheld multitester and touched every part of the keg with the probes to make sure I didn't turn the keg into a giant conductor. Success.

I am waiting for my SCR to arrive so I can mount that into a box along with a fan and then I'll be off and running. Thanks again for the write up.

I have a question about home wiring:
(If this hijacks the thread, let me know and I'll create a new thread)
I have 8ga wire going from a double pole 40amp breaker at the box, right over my brew station, on its way to the A/C compressor. What if I cut that wire and installed a 220v socket on the end leading to the box and a male plug end on the wire leading to the compressor? Then I could unplug the compressor and plug in my 5500w heating element when I want to distill.

Thoughts?

Theoretically, yes...

[humbledore]

We call that a smoke test at work. At 240 prolly be a nice bang, you might even have pooped yourself a little.

I admit after i got this thing all wired up and checked the wiring 5 times over, I made the sign of the cross and closed my eyes before flippin the breaker.

At 240V I would not only need a clean pair of shorts I probably would scream like a schoolgirl on top of it for good measure. I am doing mine 110V first because if I screw this up I will probably just do the screaming part and keep my shorts clean. I am going to post a pic about wiring to the other thread I started on doing this SCR on 110V and would appreciate any input. Thanks Jimbo and thanks S-C also for all the pointers and info I gathered from your threads.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7133950

[Prairiepiss]

We call it. Letting the magic smoke out. All electrical components have magic smoke trapped inside them. That is what makes them work. When you let the magic make out. It no longer works. And you can't get the smoke back in. No mater how hard you try. It takes magic to trap the smoke in them parts.

[F6Hawk]

Dont bother with those blue backlit chinese voltmeters I posted. Mounted them up today. At full voltage they measure fine, as the voltage drops they are not even close at 170V (measured on my expensive Fluke meter) they read 118. They are way off everywhere but full voltage and zero.

I spent a couple hours cutting the holes in the box, now I got meters mounted up that are pretty when lit up but worth 2 shits for reading voltage.

Damn this, I think Ill pour a drink or 3 and order a pizza.

Doesn't really matter, as you are not aiming for an accurate voltage, but an approximate power-to-output setting. Whether your shown voltage of 130 or actual voltage of 178, the power will be about 3k watts, and your pot will boil accordingly.

IMHO, doing away with both voltmeters and ammeters would be best, and just making sharpie marks based on practice would be best for most operators.

[Jimbo]

Agreed it doesnt much matter what the numbers are if the run is going as planned. Just a nice to know thing. Same reason I have a thermo on my potstill LMAO Nobody will ever talk me into removing it, comes in too damn handy for several things. I especially love using it to control my still temperature BAHAHAHA. Kidding of course.

[xbwqs78]

Has any of you seen this before? I’m doing my reading before I tackle my keg conversion and I stumbled across this Excel file. I’m not an election or an engineer however it all looks correct from my laymen eyes. Apologies if this hijacking a post I’m still fairly new to posting. Thanks again Jimbo to the help before.

gnipsel.com/beer/software/calculators/electric-heat.xls

[Jimbo]

Hey thats a cool calculator, thanks.

[xbwqs78]

Jimbo - does it look correct to you?

[Giner]

Several folks have PM'd me asking about how this is wired. I drew this up, hope it helps.

ControlWiringSm.JPG

For the Keg side dont forget to ground the keg itself. I drilled a hole in the bottom skirt to attach ground. See below. Also dont forget to ground the control box also, its easily missed in the drawing above.

KegWiring.JPG

Cheers,

Jimbo

Does the Neutral terminal on the power supply go to the ground?

[Jimbo]

Does the Neutral terminal on the power supply go to the ground?

Short answer: No. H1, H2, N and G all come into the box. But Neutral is only needed to make 120V for the 12V supply. Thats its only connection. Just like shown in the diagram. Ground connects to the control box, and also to the ground in the feed lines and to the keg, and anything else metal you can touch.

Longer answer: Neutral and Ground are the same at the house main breaker box. But soon as they leave the breaker box they are seperate, for all sorts of safety reasons, ground loops, ground lifts, potential drops under load etc etc.

[Giner]

So this is what I'm trying to make. The 110 outlet is only going to run the fan and the meter just like in your diagram. In THIS scenario, is it ok to run the neutral to the outbound ground right before the plug and after everything else?
Note: The box will be plastic.

(The drawing is obviously not to scale and the location of the devices isn't correct either.)

[bellybuster]

Not sure I understand your question but neutral (white wire) should never be connected to ground. Green is ground. The neutral in a 220 line is a return so you can make use of a single leg for 110 applications.

[Elroy303030]

You say that you use it on 110v, does that mean I can buy the same one in the link and just use a 110v cord and it will work? I'm a dummy when it comes to electric.

Jimbo, good on you man - glad it all worked out. Be doin' some powerful stillin' now.

I use that same controller on 110VAC. It's been dependable and works great.

S-C

[Jimbo]

+1 Belly. Never connect N to G. Neutral is neutral and ground is ground.

Elroy, yes you can run the same controller and element at 110V. lots of folks here do. You will get 1375 watts max, not 5500 tho.

[Due51]

+1 Belly. Never connect N to G. Neutral is neutral and ground is ground.

Elroy, yes you can run the same controller and element at 110V. lots of folks here do. You will get 1375 watts max, not 5500 tho.

What if I only have 3 wires TOTAL in my line (2 hot black and a bare neutral)?

[Jimbo]

+1 Belly. Never connect N to G. Neutral is neutral and ground is ground.

Elroy, yes you can run the same controller and element at 110V. lots of folks here do. You will get 1375 watts max, not 5500 tho.

What if I only have 3 wires TOTAL in my line (2 hot black and a bare neutral)?

In a 240 system hot1 hot2 to the element, ground to the box and keg.

In a 120, Hot and N to the element and ground to the box and keg.

[bellybuster]

the 2 wire 220v (2 hot and ground) is an old system and the ground was indeed used to carry current back as a neutral. This is no longer acceptable and for good reason. Fire and electrocution.
That system is only good for 220volt and cannot be split off into 110volt circuits without running a neutral. (or spending allot of money on a step-down Transformer)

I am not an electrician on home wiring.

[bellybuster]

Jimbo, posted same time as you. He only has the 2 hot wires and no neutral.

[Jimbo]

he doesnt need neutral. 2 hots to the keg, ground to ground everywhere

[Due51]

he doesnt need neutral. 2 hots to the keg, ground to ground everywhere

Thank you for the info. Can I still run a fan and an on/off switch off 1 hot leg and the neutral like you did in your diagram?

[Jimbo]

Sure. Hot to N makes 120 to power the 12v transformer.

[bellybuster]

he doesnt need neutral. 2 hots to the keg, ground to ground everywhere

Haha, ya I get that but he wants a 110 plug in as well in the same box.

[bellybuster]

Ok, had to go back and see who is who...

You have only 2 hots and a bare ground wire, you cannot pull 110 off that without a neutral which the bare wire is not.

[Giner]

Thank you everyone for answering my questions. Of course you were all right. This is the proper answer in a lump. (I also consulted an electrician family member last night just because I found out he was in town). Hopefully this clears things up for any nonelectrical engineers like myself.
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If you only want one plug you can use a 4 prong dryer outlet and only use the neutral for the 110 outlet with one hot leg. Ground goes to everything else 220.

[sambedded]

Giner,
keep it simple, you don't need 2 controllers. one controller for first element and simple switch / breaker for second will be enough.