uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[100percent]

Currently fermenting my 4th mash of this method and I cannot get it to start. Did the distillation of my 3rd batch, waited for backseat to cool to about 120 and poured back into the fermenter. Added my sugar and stirred it until it was dissolved. Waited about 4 hours and my temp had reached 97f. Pitched yeast, stirred good and hard, and then capped. Day one I had nothing so on day 2 at 78f I added a bit more yeast in an attempt to get it going and still nothing. Please anyone give me some ideas.

[Hunter87]

How much sugar did you add? How old is your yeast ?

[BIGBIRD123]

Currently fermenting my 4th mash of this method and I cannot get it to start. Did the distillation of my 3rd batch, waited for backseat to cool to about 120 and poured back into the fermenter. Added my sugar and stirred it until it was dissolved. Waited about 4 hours and my temp had reached 97f. Pitched yeast, stirred good and hard, and then capped. Day one I had nothing so on day 2 at 78f I added a bit more yeast in an attempt to get it going and still nothing. Please anyone give me some ideas.

Don't know exactly what is going on but You shouldn't have had to pitch any yeast...

[100percent]

Well I didn't the first time and it was a super slow worker. And I always rack and clear my beer a few times before distilling and I get alot of yeast out of it so I started pitching yeast each time after that.

[100percent]

I started this method early summer so there is yeast in there from then and the other batches after. My yeast that I pitched was bought in the summer as well. It's redstar wine yeast. I have been trying a few different ones. I was worried that it had possible gotten to acidic or something.

[BIGBIRD123]

Well the proper instructions for this use doesn't call for pitching any more yeast until maybe the 10th Generation. I am on 3rd Gen right now and have never had to pitch any yeast except for the first starter. There is enough left in there to get things rolling each time.

[Prairiepiss]

It's not the yeast. I think you have plenty of yeast in there. Maybe to much. But that wouldn't stop it from fermenting. More then likely a Ph problem. Or a nutrient problem. You can test for a Ph problem. But not for a nutrient problem. So test the Ph. If its off fix it. If its not add some nutrients.

[100percent]

I have added dap, really unsure what nutrients I would need as I have never done it. I have also never measured the ph level of any of my wash/mash. I guess I will get some test strips. I am going to search some on ways to adjust ph levels right now.

[Aussiedownunder01]

On following gens of ujsm what ph should we be aiming for

[T-Pee]

Dumping 120 degree backset right into the fermenter probably didn't help the yeast colony if it didn't outright kill it.

tp

[ledyard]

Dumping 120 degree backset right into the fermenter probably didn't help the yeast colony if it didn't outright kill it.

tp

This is exactly what I was thinking. But being so new at this and not knowing if I missed something I figured I'd keep my mouth shut.

[Odin]

Leave the last generation covered with some water and a little sugar (for co2 protective blanket over the wash). Collect 25% backset in a big vessel. Add the new sugar, stir in, add the new grain and stir in. Now add cold water to get things to room temp. Only now, add the backset (with new sugar, grain, more water) to the fermenter.

Odin.

[travelin man]

I was thinking of starting a new ferment of ujssm but i was thinkin i might toss a couple pounds of rolled oats in with the corn. does anyone think it will add or affect the flavor of the finish product?

[T-Pee]

I was thinking of starting a new ferment of ujssm but i was thinkin i might toss a couple pounds of rolled oats in with the corn. does anyone think it will add or affect the flavor of the finish product?

Yes, and it won't be UJSSM either.

tp

[Odin]

Oats ... is an aquired taste. I like it. Not many others do. I find it takes more time to age out well.

Odin.

[100percent]

I always leave some mash in the fermenter covering the corn and then I reseal.

Anyway....woke up this morning and she is bubbling away. My starting st was 1.090 so I check it this evening and see how well it's working. I have done this the same exact way every time and never had any issues and produce some pretty nice shine. Very smooth, good flavor, and usually around 160 proof from a 10% mash.

I do have a few questions about killin the yeast colony though. Do the yeast not feed on each other anyway? Thought I read that possibly on the all bran thread. I guess I need a secondary container to melt my sugar with my backset. Let it cool down a bit more and then add it. I always add all my backset back into my fermenter, usually have about 12 gallons of mash. I distill roughly 2-2.5 gallons and stop the run. I usually stop distilling at about 50% alcohol. I know this is not the normal practice but I'm thinking that keeping some of the tails in there can really add to the flavor each run after. Might not be the method most commonly used but its what works for me.

[RickRay]

Trying my first batch of sour mash, have been doing cooked mashes. Used the same recipe, but increased for 30 gallon size, 16# corn, 8# malted 6-row Barley, 8# Hard Red Wheat, 32# white sugar. Used 25% backset from cooked mash to get pH down to 4.8. Anyone done both mash types and have comments on taste differences? I'm using the exact same recipe for both so hopefully I'l have a few comments in a few months.

[RickRay]

BTW, I've found beer recipe software does a good job of calculating predicted O.G. Should work for sour mash if you lower the mash efficiency to 30% or so and enter your sugar as extract.

[BIGBIRD123]

Trying my first batch of sour mash, have been doing cooked mashes. Used the same recipe, but increased for 30 gallon size, 16# corn, 8# malted 6-row Barley, 8# Hard Red Wheat, 32# white sugar. Used 25% backset from cooked mash to get pH down to 4.8. Anyone done both mash types and have comments on taste differences? I'm using the exact same recipe for both so hopefully I'l have a few comments in a few months.

What you have posted has nothing to do with UJSSM...did you even read the OP?

[RickRay]

LOL, BigBird, I'd like to thank you for being so welcoming. If you'll read my post, it's UJSSM with barley and wheat subbed for half the corn, seems I've read quite a few substitutions (page 134 with oats and many others further back) that didn't receive your welcoming comments. I've been doing cooked mashes and would like to know what differences in flavor to expect. Seems like a valid question or am I out of line?

[Odin]

Don't fight over it guys!

Odin.

[RBL]

RR,

If I read correct you have been mashing all grain recipes and want to try a sugar head instead of converting your grains. no problem, it will work fine. Yes, there is a difference in taste. I love AG's but find I don't have the time and right now the equipment to do any more than small batches so I have moved over to the sugar heads which are simpler. You can make a fine drink with the UJSSM recipe it is the basis of most that I run right now. I do alter the grains, not just using corn. the grain bill you stated will make a fine drink done in the UJSSM method.

[RickRay]

Thanks RBL, that's the kind of feedback I am seeking and maybe a little more on what differences to expect in flavor.

Odin, no fighting here, actually got a pretty good laugh out of it.

[Prairiepiss]

Sugarhead grain whiskey = least amount of flavor.
Partial mash grain whiskey = more flavor then sugarhead.
AG mash whiskey = more flavors then partial mash.
AG whiskey distilled on the grain = most flavor of them all.

How much flavor? Depends on the still the operator and how they work together.

[RickRay]

Thanks Prairie Piss that helps a lot. I've been doing AG whiskey, but quite a bit of work for 15 gallon wash.

[zombie911]

In the summer months I run straight Barley malt pot still Scotch whiskey. I keep it cut to 100 proof.
During the colder months I use 25% sugar, and don't pre cook my grains. That is also kept at 100 proof.

The bottom line for flavor is 100 proof winter run sugar head tastes like 60 proof summer run liquor. The flavor is the same, just not as true or apparent. Like a watered down version.
Just my opinion.

[RickRay]

Thanks Zombie

[Txshtr]

Just finished my 2nd gen run tonight. Added some 6-row to the corn for my third gen ferment to try playing with some different flavors. Tonight's run looks like it went well but I will see in the morning when I wake up. Following what most people are doing here and really loving this hobby.

[T-Pee]

Great (but long) garage session yesterday running a Gen 3 UJSSM. Building the ferment I had accidentally over-sugared the the whole thing and measured a 1.110 SG (!) so I had to go into dilution mode before the yeasties went nuts and did something smelly. I usually ferment in a 10 gallon water cooler that yields about 7 or 8 gallons of wash after the corn and headspace is accounted for. Wound up with almost twice my normal load (which ain't necessarily a bad thing) but it all still fit in the kettle with room to spare.

I tossed in the remainder of Gen 2 that escaped my friends and the low wines from the previous run, packed the tower of my CM with cleaned copper scrubbers and fired up. After a 7 1/2 hour run the yield was 250ml of fores, 800ml of heads, 5200ml of hearts with a start ABV of 74% ( ) and 1800ml of tails finishing off at 25%. The entire run was done at what I like to call "The Silver Thread" rate where you're taking off just above a fast drip to a solid thread of distillate and I'm getting much better at the "black art" of catching the cuts. Here's my only issue...

Does anyone else have problems staying out of such tasty hearts during the run?
I see what everyone talks about. As the generations progress, it just keeps getting better. I was going to just use the UJSSM as a learning tool then shift to making a neutral but this stuff gets addicting and you want to see what the next generation is going to taste like!

tp

[RickRay]

I had a great weekend also, beer stripped my 1st gen 30 gal. batch, 12-13 gal. one day 12-13 gal. the second day. Was very happy with the taste, almost like my AG recipe. I'll see what it's like after I do a spirit run with feints from my AG. Have to finish my 2nd gen 30 gal. batch, then a 10 gal. third gen. I added Beano to the 1st wash, figure it won't go a full 3 generations.