Steel Drums / Tea Tree Oil

[BhangaBuck]

Hi all,

I have watched from afar but this is my first post. Let me just say what a wonderful website.

Now down to business, SWIM lives in an area where certain things are hard to attain. SWIM has happened upon a steel drum previously used for holding tea tree oil (not sure of the steel grade atm). SWIM has every intention of using the steel drum for a pot still. SWIM is aware of tea tree oils toxicity but does not know of the best way to clean the drum for above mentioned purposes. Any input would be appreciated. SWIM says making do with what is at hand is priority.

[steve2md]

Stainless or copper drum and you're fine. Burn it out and scrub the crap out of it and you should be fine. Reg steel? not so much.

****PERSONAL OPINION ALERT****
Reg steel will PROBABLY be safe for a limited number of runs, but could blow out or leach bad stuffs into your gear. No good. Also, 15.5 us gal (1/2 barrel) seems to be the size cap around here. I'd visit the welcome center first and introduce yourself and then the New Distiller Reading Lounge and read it through a few times. EVERY PAGE. you'll get why we do things the way we do them. Welcome!

[bearriver]

The 100 gallon drums from bubbas barrels that you are referring to have edpm gaskets (no go). Yes, I know what your looking at.

And the barrels themselves are to large to be discussed here anyways....this site is for hobbiests.

A 55-125 gal boiler is obviously not for a hobby, thus has no place here. Your into this for profit, good for you, but dont expect any help here.

[humbledore]

Bear I'm sure your're a good guy but with only a month on this forum maybe you should leave the ass kicking to a senior mod. The OP said there are limited parts available where he is. I realize the forum frowns on non-hobby size stuff, but maybe this guy needs some help cause that's all he has access to. Rather than tell him he's selling, let's find out from him. And then the appropriate people can respond.

[bearriver]

I apologize. You are right and my comment was inappropriate. Its simply not my place.

Ive have been out of place discussing things of larger nature like Mr. bangabuck. I was scolded and for very good reason. Not just for my good but for the forums good as well. This site is for hobbiests. Having members that are out there discussing things like a 55-100 gal boiler drum and larger just isnt good for anyone.

[F6Hawk]

I apologize. Its simply not my place.
This site is for hobbYIsts. Having members that are out there discussing things like a 55-100 gal boiler drum and larger just isnt good for anyone.

Not necessarily true. Perhaps he wishes to make extreme cuts, and only plans to keep 4-5L of hearts out of a 40-gallon run?

[bearriver]

Perhaps you are right. Who knows? He seems very knowledgeable about such safety concerns like making good cuts.(excuse my horrid spelling). I get typing fast and forget to rescan sometimes.

He or "someone he may know" might want to indroduce himself to us first on the introduction page before chatting up drum boilers and such....

maybe he is legally making fuel in the usa? In which case he should post his license number according to what I have read.

[humbledore]

Wow. He said steel barrel. That's all he said. He didn't say 55G, didn't say 100G, didn't say 125G, didn't say anything about his knowledgeable cuts, didn't say he was legally making ETOH. All those things were said by you Bear. I suggest relaxing and getting a little more time and experience under your belt so when you tell others how it is you have more credibility. Just my 2 cents.

[bearriver]

You right my first original post shouldnt have accused him of anything.

Regardless of his or (swim's) intentions I shouldn't have jumped him. Instead I should have been helpful and warned him of the risks of what he was talking about.

I would be shocked if he is not looking at a 55 gallon used drum. Which besides the edpm seal, is safe to use. These pre tree oil drums are advertised to would be distillers.

[Jkhippie]

Relax, Bear, I got this.

Hey, Bhangabuck!
How big is this drum of which you speak?
Why can't you find a 5-10gal stockpot or something?
Whatchya wanna make with your still?

How was that, everybody?

[pfshine]

Good god this post went south in a hurry. And if it was a 55 gal barrel what makes you think anything other than hobby size and selling? Just because one man has 3 inches and the other has 10 does that mean he is a male prostitute? Maybe he just wont fill it all the way up, maybe he only wants to run every few months. Either way on this site a keg is what most people use there is no reason to jump on sombody with no facts on hand and they are just trying to make due.

[Prairiepiss]

Well it was posted just the other day. That the management here has put the limit on it. The limit hey have put on boiler size for hobby discussion here on HD is 20 gallons.

My biggest concern is the fact that it was stated as steel. And not stainless steel.

But really we just need to wait for the op to elaborate on what his "friend" is actually doing.

[pfshine]

Where was the limit posted at?

[bearriver]

Humbledore and Prairiepiss are right. Despite what I think I may know.....

He never stated an oversized boiler. Therfore its not an issue here.

I was totally f@#$#ed up.

[100percent]

I recently scored a tea tree oil barrel which is stainless steel. I am wanting to use this as a mash pot to cook all grain mash in. I am having the absolute hardest time getting the tea tree oil smell out of the barrel. I have used vinegar with baking soda. I have put a couple gallons of water in it and boiled it hard to try and steam it clean but a little of the smell is still there. My next thing is to boil vinegar in it. I am a bit concerned about the epdm gasket comment earlier in this thread. Where is this seal at? Is it where the top and bottom meet the sides? I would have assumed it was welded there and then the edges rolled. Any info would be great.

[Prairiepiss]

The only place a drum would have a gasket is. On a removable lid.

And if you can't get the smell out of it. I would not use it. The smell would carry over to your product.

I would fill it completely up. To do any cleaning. If you are only filling it partial. Then its only partially getting cleaned.

[100percent]

I filled it up with roughly 4 gallons of vinegar and one gallon of water and rotated it around to make sure everything was covered. Then added a 1lb box of baking soda and did the process again. I rotated the barrel every 10-12 hrs. Each area was covered by liquid atleast that long. Is there another chemical I could add to try and get it out? Maybe dawn? Or a degreaser?

[Prairiepiss]

It's an oil. So it will float. By you only partially filling it and rolling it around. You just sloshed what oils you did extract around the drum. If you fill it up. The oils will be forced out the top. Giving you a better chance of getting them out without contaminating the rest of the drum.

Alcohol would be the best to break down the oils. And remove them. But again it would take a good bit to do it good.

You mite try brewers cleaner. The stuff they sell for cleaning kegging equipment.

I would say bleach. But if I remember correctly? Bleach shouldn't be used in stainless? For some reason? I'm at a loss on that for some reason. And I mite just be talking out my ass. So please do your own research on it. It won't necessaraly pull the oils out. But it would work hard on those smells that may just be lingering around.

[100percent]

I have read that bleach can be corrosive to stainless. I see what you are saying about the oil floating. I'm going to try some dawn and filling it up with water.

Thanks a ton can't believe I didn't think that through.

[Prairiepiss]

The hotter the water the better.

[bellybuster]

I would try tri sodium phosphate (TSP) and very hot water.

[humbledore]

On the brewing forums there is has been quite a bit of talk of creating your own PBW (powered brew wash) by using 2 parts oxyclean and 1 part TSP phosphate free. I do it and can attest there is very little it cannot clean up, it is more effective than just oxyclean. Plus it is concentrated. Use the same amount that oxyclean recommends per water volume, use very hot water if possible and fill it to the top. This will definitely eat through anything organic, oil I can't say for sure but it is what I would try.

[Prairiepiss]

On the brewing forums there is has been quite a bit of talk of creating your own PBW (powered brew wash) by using 2 parts oxyclean and 1 part TSP phosphate free. I do it and can attest there is very little it cannot clean up, it is more effective than just oxyclean. Plus it is concentrated. Use the same amount that oxyclean recommends per water volume, use very hot water if possible and fill it to the top. This will definitely eat through anything organic, oil I can't say for sure but it is what I would try.

I will have to try this myself. I like to use the crap out of oxyclean. And my wife likes to use the crap out of TSP. Get the best of both worlds.

[100percent]

Thanks guys!!

[humbledore]

More info here for those interested:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/home-ma ... al-182939/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[steve2md]

Bleach is used commonly with stainless, and won't be a problem if it's removed promptly. I wouldn't soak stainless with bleach for much more than 30 min or so.

[humbledore]

I would never suggest to someone that they put any bleach solution on stainless. It pits and corrodes. You may have a system worked out but I would not be on a public forum putting that thought into anyone's head but especially a newb's. That can ruin an expensive piece of equipment. Not saying the OP is a newb of course.

From How to brew:
http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cleaning Stainless Steel and Aluminum
For general cleaning, mild detergents or percarbonate-based cleaners are best for steel and aluminum. Bleach should be avoided because the high pH of a bleach solution can cause corrosion of aluminum and to a lessor degree of stainless steel. Do not clean aluminum shiny bright or use bleach to clean an aluminum brewpot because this removes the protective oxides and can result in a metallic taste. This taste-detectable level of aluminum is not hazardous. There is more aluminum in a common antacid tablet than would be present in a batch of beer made in an aluminum pot.

As with aluminum, the corrosion inhibitor in stainless steel is the passive oxide layer that protects the surface. The 300-series alloys (a.k.a. 18-8 alloys) commonly used in the brewing industry are very corrosion-resistant to most chemicals. Unfortunately, chlorine is one of the few chemicals to which these steels are not resistant. The chlorine in bleach acts to destabilize the passive oxide layer on steel, creating corrosion pits. This type of attack is accelerated by localization and is generally known as crevice or pitting corrosion.

Many brewers have experienced pinholes in stainless-steel vessels that have been filled with a bleach-water solution and left to soak for several days. On a microscopic scale, a scratch or crevice from a gasket can present a localized area where the surface oxide can be destabilized by the chlorine. The chlorides can combine with the oxygen, both in the water and on the steel surface, to form chlorite ions, depleting that local area of protection. If the water is not circulating, the crevice becomes a tiny, highly active site relative to the more passive stainless steel around it and corrodes. The same thing can happen at the liquid surface if the pot is only half full of bleach solution. A dry stable area above, a less stable but very large area below, and the crevice corrosion occurs at the waterline. Usually this type of corrosion will manifest as pitting or pinholes because of the accelerating effect of localization.

A third way chlorides can corrode stainless steel is by concentration. This mode is very similar to the crevice mode described above. By allowing chlorinated water to evaporate and dry on a steel surface, those chlorides become concentrated and destabilize the surface oxides at that site. The next time the surface is wetted, the oxides will quickly dissolve, creating a shallow pit. When the pot is allowed to dry, that pit probably will be one of the last sites to evaporate, causing chloride concentration again. At some point in the cleaning life of the pot, that site will become deep enough for crevice corrosion to take over and the pit to corrode through.

It is best to not use bleach to clean stainless steel and other metal. There are other cleaners available that work just as well without danger of corrosion. The percarbonate-based cleaners like PBW are the best choice for general cleaning.

If you have a particularly tough stain, liked burned malt extract, then you may need something stronger. There are oxalic acid based kitchen cleansers available at the grocery store that are very effective for cleaning stains and deposits from stainless. They also work well for copper. One example is Revere Ware Copper and Stainless Cleanser, another is Bar Keeper's Friend, and another is Kleen King Stainless Steel Cleanser. Use according to the manufacturer's directions and rinse thoroughly with water afterwards.

[Hawkeye3]

Thanks Humbledore. Good info to have.

[steve2md]

....Many brewers have experienced pinholes in stainless-steel vessels that have been filled with a bleach-water solution and left to soak for several days. On a microscopic scale, a scratch or crevice from a gasket can present a localized area where the surface oxide can be destabilized by the chlorine.......

It's clearly stated that the bleach must have prolonged contact. In Charlie Pappazian's book, The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, commonly referred to as the home brewer's bible, he states that a MILD bleach solution may be used to sanitize stainless steel (Cornelius Kegs), but only to soak for a 30 minute maximum, as corrosion could occur with prolonged soaks. Also, the concentration of chlorine in the solution is exceptionally mild. It is recommended to rinse multiple times, as bleach residue in a fermentation vessel can cause a "band-aid" flavor defect. If directions are followed, bleach/chlorine is a perfectly safe sanitization compound.

[BigSwede]

If soaps, detergents, TSP, Simple Green and the like do not work, it might be worth considering unleashing a powerful solvent like acetone. There are few organic oils that can resist it.

Acetone should evaporate 100% in just a few minutes, but I'd still follow it up with an aqueous soap or detergent wash with hot water.

Use caution - Acetone is extremely flammable. Treat it like gasoline. Use no heat, ever. Do it outside with a breeze blowing. No need to go crazy, a half liter in a moderate drum swirled about should do it. If you want to scrub, wear chemical-resistant gloves. Pour any residual acetone into a metal or glass container, set it aside, and allow it to evaporate.

Good luck!