What should the hearts taste like?

[Lonesome Loins]

I've only done two runs, both with a reflux still. I've liked the results, but since I've never tasted Moonshine, I don't know what it is supposed to taste like. When it first comes out, the hearts, for a few days or more, taste/smell like Vodka + something I find hard to describe.

The closest I can come to describing it as a vaguely banana like smell. That's not it, but that may be as close as I can describe. It does not taste bad, like the tails, or chemical/strong like the foreshots, just different from Vodka.

Also, I've been so eager to sample the product, that with my second batch, I got headaches, presumably from my 'shine, the first two days; despite keeping it in reflux mode and no take off for the first 45 minutes, then a drop a second for the first 150 ml on a 10 gal. run, for the foreshots which I set aside as solvent/poison.

[Lonesome Loins]

I'll add that I've also been experimenting with turning this stuff into gin by adding juniper berries, coriander, cardamon and orange peels. Great stuff! My process is just to crush the botanicals a little and throw them right in the bottle, then add more of whatever to taste. I'm going to keep experimenting until I'm satisfied, then settle on an Rx.

[Doogie]

Moonshine has no distinct taste like rum or vodka (lacks taste) ... since moonshine in itself has various starting recipes. Depending on your setup, chances are you do not have a 20 foot column with 30 plates in a 4" column ...

... so you will not have a pure taste ... you will always be able to taste the origins of the product. Also, with high proof, it is very difficult to get the true taste out. Water it down a bit - most whiskey samples from casks get a splash of water to open up the flavors. When sampling my rums or whiskeys, I knock it to 45%, then mix with it's eventual soulmate - coke.

I would do the basics - make cuts - say 500ml all the way across ... and sample everything - fores thru late tails. Now, when I say sample, get a bunch on yer finger and rub it all over yer tongue. Feel the likker at the stages, and then rinse yer mouth out and spit it out. The hearts will show themselves ... usually after the "crap that burns" and before the "that tastes a bit weird"

hearts you could almost drink straight without dilution ...

Now, if you are looking to put some traditional moonshine likker taste to it, then maybe take a touch of the heads (right before the hearts) to give a bit of burn, and a bit of tails to put the corn flavor up ...

Make cuts, and then pick your "keep", and then mix some in from the outside of those cuts in a small sample container of about 15ml - put 5 ml hearts, a bit of late heads, a bit of early tails - total about 10ml. Then add 5ml water - so now you can taste a bit of the flavor. Then mix 1:5 likker sample to coke ... then try it.

As for headaches, you are getting them for keeping everything after the 150 ml - you are probably (depending on yer still) still in the early heads ... I usually ditch about 1L on a reflux run to get out of the fores and heads ... now my setup will be different from yours, but you may just be keeping way too early

[Doogie]

also, ditching just the fores and keeping a wack of heads is why you get nasty hangovers with shitty cheap likker - because crappy brands do the same thing

[humbledore]

The hearts will show themselves ... usually after the "crap that burns" and before the "that tastes a bit weird"

I think you just wrote the abbreviated version of "how to make cuts".

[Lonesome Loins]

Every post in response makes complete sense to me. And that is what I've been doing, making 500 ml cuts or so until I get to the obvious tails where I''m just going to throw it back into the next run.

What I'm getting at, since of course I do not have a 20 foot column; more like 4 feet, and I'm only getting so far about 80 to 90 % ABV at most, is "how do you describe that taste, vaguely mash like as you suggest? It mellows in a few days. I assumed that if you did everything correctly, you would still get some fusel oils or whatever even tho' you've fractioned off the methanol in the fore shots. Am I making sense to anyone?

What I really want is a pure neutral spirit that I can use for vodka or for making gin. I don't have any ambition to make something else because I know I won't have the patience PLUS my belief is that any congeners, whether acetone, acetaldehyde, esters, fusel alcohols, tannins, aldehydes or whatever may be great for flavor, but not so good in my blood stream whether because of headache or other health issues.

Again, does this make sense to anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Fastill]

If you are getting a bananna like nail polish remover smell in your hearts, then you are smearing your heads into them or not making proper cuts. Heads smell like banannas to me.
I don't know how to describe a neutral taste for alcohol, because it tastes just like alcohol. If that is what you are after, cut your hearts after the bananna smell and before the funky tails smell and taste, dilute hearts to 30% with distilled water and do a very slow drip run. I run 40" of reflux column and easily hit 90% with a broken stream, 95-96% takes alot more time. 2 drips per second.
That should get you started at a good neutral, but depending on the column design, you might need to turn up the heat to get more redistillations in the column.

[Prairiepiss]

Well what do you mean by moonshine? Everything we make can be called moonshine. So it depends on what you call moonshine.

Personaly I don't think moonshine is made with a reflux still. It's made with a pot still maybe with a thumper. But that's me. I also think a good moonshine won't burn until it hits your belly. Then it will warm you from the inside out. It has very little flavor. Maybe a hint of the grain used. And just goes down smooth. Almost a really nice drinking vodka.

But without knowing the recipe you used. And how exactly you ran it. It's hard to say. But from your description of your run. It sounds like you made a vodka. Reflux run.

+1 banana heads.

Also
Pure alcohol (good clean hearts) can trick you into thinking its sweet. It's not. But it will sure make you think it is.

[Lonesome Loins]

If you are getting a bananna like nail polish remover smell in your hearts, then you are smearing your heads into them or not making proper cuts. Heads smell like banannas to me.
I don't know how to describe a neutral taste for alcohol, because it tastes just like alcohol. If that is what you are after, cut your hearts after the bananna smell and before the funky tails smell and taste, dilute hearts to 30% with distilled water and do a very slow drip run. I run 40" of reflux column and easily hit 90% with a broken stream, 95-96% takes alot more time. 2 drips per second.
That should get you started at a good neutral, but depending on the column design, you might need to turn up the heat to get more redistillations in the column.

Thanks. makes sense. Not getting nail polish [acetone?] but something banannaish tho' only faintly/vaguely.
Based on what you say, I am probably going too quickly after the fore shots and trying to get too much of the heads- wanting it to be hearts. I'm too quickly going to a stream rather than drips/broken stream. Patience. I've got very little of that. Hate to be wedded to a still all day.

[Fastill]

If you are getting a bananna like nail polish remover smell in your hearts, then you are smearing your heads into them or not making proper cuts. Heads smell like banannas to me.
I don't know how to describe a neutral taste for alcohol, because it tastes just like alcohol. If that is what you are after, cut your hearts after the bananna smell and before the funky tails smell and taste, dilute hearts to 30% with distilled water and do a very slow drip run. I run 40" of reflux column and easily hit 90% with a broken stream, 95-96% takes alot more time. 2 drips per second.
That should get you started at a good neutral, but depending on the column design, you might need to turn up the heat to get more redistillations in the column.

Thanks. makes sense. Not getting nail polish [acetone?] but something banannaish tho' only faintly/vaguely.
Based on what you say, I am probably going too quickly after the fore shots and trying to get too much of the heads- wanting it to be hearts. I'm too quickly going to a stream rather than drips/broken stream. Patience. I've got very little of that. Hate to be wedded to a still all day.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is what it takes to make a good neutral.
If a vodka with a little flavor from the parent wash is what you want, it does go a little quicker.

[Doogie]

a vodka type should be a later goal - I was there - I love a good vodka, and have been distilling for about a year and have yet to make one that matches the vodka I like.

But this can be a positive ... rediscover a good rum, a good whiskey, or even a good traditional corn/sugar moonshine ...

[Lonesome Loins]

Damn! What you guys are saying makes too much sense. Patience? I ain't got no patience. Got no time to be patient. Guess I'll have to take the computer and easy chair down to the garage on 'still'n day.
Is that one of the reasons you do a stripping run first? Haven't wanted to take that extra step, but things are beginning to click . . . slowly . . . v e r y s l o w l y .

[Doogie]

That is why I do a strip first ... just remove yer packing, open the valve right up and strip it ... the process is very quick (I can strip 40L in about 2 hours from start to finish with a start liquid temp of about 5'C). It is also very automated - yes, you always want to pay attention even when stripping, but you are not as focused with a strip - once it is cooling properly, just watch the alcohol meter until you get below 20% and then kill the heat

[bellybuster]

"I'm only getting so far about 80 to 90 % ABV at most,"

this statement needs to be visited. What still are you running??

There have been several mentions of cuts but no reply from the OP. As it reads he is keeping everything after fores until tails.

[Lonesome Loins]

It's a stone-nixon [offset head with condenser in the offset] with a takeoff valve and reflux valve with copper mesh packing in column. The difference between heads and hearts seems very subtle to me. Must be lack of experience because with most things my nose seems to be better than most.
I've tried to emulate Husker's suggestion: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 63&t=13265
But confess I tried to speed up the process and I did not do a stripping run.
Recipe was a sweetfeed

[Doogie]

there should be a distinct difference between hearts and heads ... one you want to put in yer mouth, the other you fear putting in yer mouth

[Chroi]

I just ran my first reflux run last night. 5 gallons of birdwatchers took about 4+ hours at 2 drops per second from fores to tails.

After running a pot still, wow, the cuts on a Boka were obvious. first 400ml was absolutely noxious, horrific, undrinkable, unsmellable. collected an extra 50ml after that then got 700+ of pure hearts before I called it quits. I didnt run into the tails but based on my calculations I was about 50ml away and I just didnt give a shit at 4am. What I got was great and the backset tasted like it was 2-4% at most so I think I done good for first run with no thermometer

[bellybuster]

It's a stone-nixon [offset head with condenser in the offset] with a takeoff valve and reflux valve with copper mesh packing in column. The difference between heads and hearts seems very subtle to me. Must be lack of experience because with most things my nose seems to be better than most.
I've tried to emulate Husker's suggestion: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 63&t=13265
But confess I tried to speed up the process and I did not do a stripping run.
Recipe was a sweetfeed

I run a Nixon Stone as well and I follow those instructions too except I now pull the fores right away without reflux. (thanks DaD) Then 100% reflux for maybe 15-20 minutes then start collecting at 2-3 drips per second. I collect in many small containers and don't even bother with smell etc until the next day. The line between heads and hearts is very clear. Sometimes it falls between 2 jars so there is a bit of waste there but not much. Tails for me don't ever seem to show themselves other than the oils on top. maybe I just cannot detect that particular smell.I can however get that watered down taste easily and use the beginning of that as my tails cut. I keep nothing after a reflux run other than the hearts cut.

Sounds to me like you're running too fast and smearing everything together, good hearts will have no burn unless you're tasting at full strength ABV

[Ayay]

Pure hearts should have no trace of heads nor tails. Other hearts can have a trace of carefully selected taints.

[Doogie]

Taints? LOL ...