Living Off the Grid

[MadMasher]

Sounds nice, wish I had some land to play on. Are you going to build your own wind generator or purchase one?

[cob]

As for completely off the grid, it isn't feasible for me at the moment. Just bought a new house in a subdivision

neighbors can be a bitch. something they deem unsightly or outside their vision of normal can become a pain in the ass if it is outside
CCR, HOA, or code perameters.

optimum water heater uses a secondary tank for thermal mass with a heat exchanger for cold water pre heat.

i have 6 polyolefin pool panels at considerablely less than optimal sun angle that put out 105 degrees or more
april to september

[Prairiepiss]

Sounds nice, wish I had some land to play on. Are you going to build your own wind generator or purchase one?

I will be building my own. I have a few high end alternator's that are brand new in the box. Joys of my job. I've been saving them for about 10 years now. I've wanted to use them for wind generation or water. Thought about engine at one time. Just never had a place I wanted to build or would support wind or water. Or a good engine. I do have access to more DC motors then you can shake a stick at. If I ever decide to go that route. But I will start with what I have. Will take the rectifier/regulator out of the alternator's. So I can run the ac for the long run from the wind geny to the battery bank. Less voltage drop with the higher ac voltage. Then with 12vdc. Regulator/rectifier in the battery storage area right next to the charge controller. And a charge diverter. That will divert the over abundance of electric produced to something. I haven't decided what yet. Probably a water heater element to supliment water heating cost.

Solar and wind are the two I will use. Eventually. When it will all come together? That's a different story. Gonna start out small. And add as I go.

I was wanting to do this for my camping rig. Mainly because I didn't want to do it where I am now. But if we get this new place. The camping rig will have to wait.

[Jkhippie]

Damn, Coyote! Wish I could put that on a T-shirt. Seems like you really were "made on the 8th day."

I have a different take on "off the grid." I'm still quite connected. It takes minimal hustle to pay what few bills I have. They're not in my name. None of my neighbors know my 'real' name. Hell, even my family hasn't had an address for me in 10yrs. I like to think of it as "hiding in plain sight"

[Truckinbutch]

Coyote , you been snoopin in my diary We did the same thing . Still no cabs on tractors and we still gotta strip to the waist in subzero temperatures to field deliver a breech birth calf . Some parts of being an American Farmer never change .
My advice to my city friends is to never cuss a farmer with your mouth full .

[MadMasher]

Man, sounds like good stuff, things are always better when you work your ass off for em.

Mr. Piss, Since you are familiar with dc motors any tips on sourcing a decent one? Currently I've found F&P washer motors to be fit for the job, just hard to find over here for less than 100 bucks. I was trying to get the scrappers to look for me and pay them double what a washer's worth in scrap but no luck, maybe some come tax time. Other than that, treadmill motors but they are too high RPM. Solar would be ideal but investment to return isn't as good as with wind.

[Prairiepiss]

I work on electric industrial equipment. Forklifts, sweeper Scrubbers, golfvand industrial carts. So I see many dc motors. Problem finding them for someone that don't work with them. Scrappers tend to separate the metals in them. The scrap yards here won't take motors whole. They can't throw them in the grinder. And they can get more when the copper is separate.

I've never seen a dc motor in a washer? Most are AC.

Find a alternator rebuild shop. Most do both alternators and starters. And many also do dc motors for like my industry. The one we use builds anything dc. And has more stuff laying around. I could have him build me just about anything I want. Bit they mite be able to help you find something. Not to mention a dc motor will need brushes. Eventualy. And they can get those for you pretty easily.

[DAD300]

God bless the American farmer, Coyote and Truckinbutch....I pray for America & the American Farmer every day...

[Truckinbutch]

God bless the American farmer, Coyote and Truckinbutch....I pray for America & the American Farmer every day...

Thank you , Sir . 55 years ago my family dropped it's candy in the dirt . Depressed as our area was , there wasn't a week went by when someone would drive by and offer to sell my Grandpa a nice clean farm for , basicly , a bus ticket to a major city and a fifth of whiskey . He didn't have the money to take them up on the offers . His caution to me left a lasting impression in my mind :
"They are all running off to the 'big city' now . The time is going to come , Boy , when their grandkids will be coming back here begging to buy a patch big enough to fit a trailer house and an onion patch ."
I have seen that happen .
This farmin isn't anything you can get rich on by it's self . You and your friends are going to eat well . With a site like HD all the neighbors are going to drink well , too . So long as they are friends with the local bootlegger .

[MadMasher]

you are correct Mr. P, they are AC. you have to re wire them or the voltage is too high. Seem to be a favorite among wind enthusiasts, people also make bike and hydro generators outta them. I'm kind of poor right now so the cheaper i can get anything the better.

[Coyote]

Farming is a wild ride.

Tractors are 50 to 100k

Combines $ 275,000 plus can't afford to own one
so we lease for 10 to 15 days we need them

New MacDon swather $160 grand

2 years ago new small baler, paid cash, got a discount,
was only $ 33,000.

Bale twine 10 years ago was $ 18 bucks a roll
Just bought pre-season - for cash, in advance
$ 34.00 / roll in 48 roll pallets. We need 10 pallets a year.
6,500 foot roll x 48 rolls x 10 pallets = 3,120,000 feet
divided by 5,280 feet per mile = 590.9 miles of twine.
Now my head hurts. . .

Farming is a great life, it has its struggles, but I can't
imagine doing anything else - and enjoying it as much.

I always love when I hear a farmer say " I won't invest in the
the stock market - too big of a gamble" Yeah right!

Thanks DAD and everyone else for your support.

Coyote

[Prairiepiss]

I personaly don't want to go all out full farmer. I we just want to grow enough for your family. Or a large portion of our food. Tired of buying crap food at outrageous prices. I know I can't grow everything.

We are just waiting on the final paperwork on the new place. Not exactly the weather I want to move in. We will see how that works out.

The wife already has the goats lined out. Will be ready for us after we move. Will need to get the fencing fixed up first.
Need to het the rabbits some more hutches. Will need to either wait for warmer weather or the kits to get bigger. Before we move them.

Then there is the propane cost problem. I know that tank is probably empty. And propane just went up again. So we will have to scrape up some cash to get at least some in it. Before we can move in. Ugh.

It's gona be an experience. But I'm ready for it.

[Coyote]

I have always said the only difference
between having a house in town, 10 acres
in the country, or a full time farm/ranch of
a 1,000 or 10,000 acres is the size of
the equipment.

Still need a weed eater - Mine is just bigger

24' wide, fold up wings and requires a 125 HP
tractor to run it - Oh yeah and the blades weigh
75 lbs each !!!!!!!

Rabbit or Cow same amount of work, Just bigger
equipment

Coyote

[DAD300]

PP, goats learn about temp electric fence very quickly. Daughter uses plastic sticks and the white tape. Takes two strands for goats. And she moves them around a lot.

When you can buy propane in the summer. Our supplier offers a deal around May-June and has a minimum delivery in the winter.

Coyote, when I was a kid, every farmer didn't own every piece of equipment. But they would help or loan out the equipment for help or use of the other guys. One guy had a big planter, another a baler and one had a combine, everybody had a truck and trailer for grain. So we'd work for Bob to get his corn planted or picked and he'd bale hay for us, or... you get the idea...

Not where I'm at now. The younger guys have to have it all and pretty much won't even deliver hay if we buy it. It's a little dif now days.

[Prairiepiss]

Equipment is gona be a biggy. Not that I need a bunch of it. But I will need at least a tractor of some sort. Seeing how all I have is a cheap push mower and a good chainsaw. Don't even have a weed whacker. LOL But that will have to wait till June. When I have the money.

Dad we plan to get the fence that's there back up right and tight. Then adding electric fence also. Shouldn't cost us much more then the electric fence stuff.

I'm told they have a 100 gal min on the propane right now? That's $500. I don't know how much I will really need. So I will probably just get the 100 gal to start with. See how long it lasts. Hopefully until spring summer time. After the prices have dropped. Then I can fill her up. And prebuy some at the lower price. Or get on a leveled plan? We will see.

Bad thing is the appliances. I don't have a propane stove. Or propane drier. So I will have to come up with something. Been there before. Never fails we move from an electric house to a gas house. Or vise versa. Something else to figure out.

[Truckinbutch]

Mr. Piss and like minded individuals , there is a book "Ten Acres Is Enough" and a publication 'Small Farmer's Journal ' by Lynn Miller that should be required reading for all of you . You could add much to it as well as gaining from it . These two beat the Foxfire Books all hollow for day to day advice for anyone to get off the grid as far as their individual circumstances will allow .
Total independence from the grid may not be possible for everyone or desirable to them . Anyone smart enough to frog up a likker still does have the capability to lessen their dependence on that grid .
You don't have to alternately freeze your ass or suffer heat stroke like Coyote and I and others have chosen to do . You can lessen your dependence on 'The Man' to what ever level you wish to achieve .

[Prairiepiss]

I will have to find those books. Thanks.

You know what. Our off grid and self sustaining ambitions could fail. Or not ever get to the point we really want. But we will still be away from this crappy city funk. The place is small enough and price cheap enough. That I won't have to do anything but live there.

I've been in a funk for a good 15 years. I haven't even shot my guns in 15 years. Didn't have anywhere to do it. I'm sick of the bad attitude of the people here. I had to say excuse me. To a woman at the grocery store 3 times. Before she would get out of my way. Just to get a package of hamburger out of the cooler. I'm tired of the neighbors. Who are rude nosey and just plain obnoxious. Not to mention they are so close I can hear them while inside my home. How bad is that I don't even get up to see why there are flashing lights shining in my front window. Because I already know why they are out there. Or the fact that when its the cops. They don't even come ask me what's going on anymore. Because they can just look at me and know my answer. Oh and I have been turned into the city 4 times in 2 years for some of the dumbest shit. While the house accros the street is a big shit hole that looks like a scrap yard. But I got turned in for grass growing in my gravel driveway.

Anyway sorry for the rant. As you can see. This is a much needed move. I would be fine just moving out there and farming dirt.

[Truckinbutch]

Mr. Piss , Fully understand your frustrations . You are making a good move and I will help in any way I can to help make it fulfilling . 10 Acres is a book . SFJ is a , I believe , quarterly publication . Many years in print with back issues available . Much more practical and realistic than Mother Earth News . At what ever level you can get off the grid/escape that crap hole , you are gaining . May be a rough start , so was stillin . You'll handle it .
Maybe start a separate thread on your adventure . Lot of old farts like me around here that 'been there , done that' that would be willing to contribute experience about living closer to the land .

[Coyote]

I am happy to offer whatever I know to help.

Farmers have always "Lived off the Grid" to some
extent. By that I mean. .

Scrap pile of lumber, stack of steel, bins of bolts that
you might need "one day". Rebuild a piece of equipment
rather than buy new - unless there is a tax reason to do so.

I laugh when I hear someone say that farmers rape the land
That is just a silly- stupid notion. We need the land next season too.

Perhaps the hardest lesson one needs to learn is how to be a
good Steward of the Land. I have seen some fairly large
farm operations decide to go organic. Very few people have the will
and desire to get up early enough to use organic sprays, or spend the
hours required to hand hoe and pull weeds on a 100 acre field. Or buy the
equipment to do the work. Hand working 5 acres of organic is a full time job.

Organic farming has its romantic side - but in practical application, well
its a bitch. Sustainable farming is very do-able, like I said it is a question of
equipment size.

The biggest single mistake I see a small acreage operation make is not enough
tractor. Folks think buying an old Ford 8N for $1500 bucks makes a great small
acreage tractor, rarely works out that way. Couple of years ago we bought a
mid size Kubota BX2370 23 HP diesel. Great little 4WD unit, but worthless
as a farm tractor, does not have the weight to pull implements of any size, plenty
of power just too light.

When you think tractor, go find a mid 70's to 80's vintage 75 to 90HP farm tractor, with a
loader - trust me you will be way happier. Parts are available, fairly cheap, lots of
these old IH, Oliver, Massey's, Fords around. Price wise you can buy them all day long for
6 to 10 K and they will out work any of the little fellers

Coyote

[Prairiepiss]

I downloaded and started reading that book last night truckingbutch. Interesting.

As far as the tractor. Budget will kill me. Will have to make do with what I can get at first. Seen some decent deals on Craigslist. Bit since I won't be able to make a move till June. Who knows what I will get.

[Truckinbutch]

+10 on Coyote's last post . End loader on a tractor is always your friend . You will use it every day . Wood splitters that can couple to tractor hydraulics can be built for pennies versus $ for a self contained unit .
You don't need a large 'must have' list to start . You can use your electric stove and dryer for the time being . Secure your home and work outward from there a step at a time . Hand tools and backache will get you started . The more you learn and tool up , the easier it gets . Along with getting the house secure establish a garden . Then work on your game plan for the rest of the place . Not making the move until June will give you more flexibility on the propane .

[Prairiepiss]

Oh no we will be moving soon. I just won't have funding available for a tractor till June. And a frontend loader was already on my must have list.

Yes house is first.
Second is getting the rabbits situated. Was just told we are getting 4 more breeders this week.
Chicks in two weeks.

The garage is going to be high on my list also. So I have a good workspace.

I already know where I want to put the garden. And it will take some good cleaning up to do it. But that will have to wait for a bit. But I want it ready to plant as soon as I can. But with a foot of snow on the ground. I won't be able to do squat with that.

We have our work cut out for us. And the kids will have a rude awakening. LOL

[Truckinbutch]

Movin right now that propane might be an issue . I got 400 gallons delivered 1/7/14 . With an inadequate wood supply and unusually low temperatures I have burned 200 of that as of today . I'm heating 2,600 sq ft 2 story . That may be a bite in the ass for you to get through to spring .

[Prairiepiss]

I know. That's what worries me. I do have a wood stove. I could put in. But I don't have any wood. But at this point. I could get wood delivered cheaper then propane. And there ain't enough wood on the land to keep the place heated. So I was gonna put the wood stove in the shop. Not to mention we can't burn wood around the birds. So who knows what I will end up doing. LOL

[googe]

My best buddy has got a good setup on 60 acres, I helped him do his solar setup, was great fun, he's got a shipping container with all the panels on top, converter , batteries and all the goodies inside, he recently got another by mate to weld up a large frame for a suntracker system, said it's boosted his input amazingly. Got a small wind turbine to. Has go not no Mains power on the property and can do almost anything. Got a 11kva gen as backup. Got cows, pigs, chooks, and fish in the dams. Vegie garden. The outlay money has been alot but is starting to pay off now.

[Coyote]

We always pre buy in the summer for propane and now late spring for diesel
Generally find right about the end of May best for diesel pricing.

Like TB we are heating 2950 sq ft of Wifey's new house with 2 gas fireplaces
which she loves, as do the dogs. And just for fun I took the old 100,000 Btu
Furnace out of the old house and installed it in the new shop at the new place,
So now we add another 1,100 sq ft of 14 foot tall shop to heat.
Thank the Lord not all the time.

Diesel prices just about kill us every year. On average we go through 8,000 gallons
a year.

Coyote

[Prairiepiss]

That's a question I have. Should I go gas or diesel for the tractor? I'm inclined to go gas. Mainly because I as a mechanic am much better with gas. Diesel is my weak spot. So I would be much more confident in working on a gas tractor. Don't get me wrong. I could work on a diesel. I just really prefer not to. I pas as many diesel jobs off as I can. Except one that keeps on haunting me. Which happens to be the largest forklift we service. It's bigger then my house

Anyway which is better? Or should I even worry about it?

[MadMasher]

PP check craigslist to see if wood is in the area. I'm thinking on the prairie its limited. The inlaws have a wood stove and haven't had to hardly use their propane and this year, made it worth buying the trailer and wood spliter. guess if your wind generator is good enough electric would work just the same if not better though.

I'm glad i'm all electric, although its been too cold for our heat pump so I've had to run the regular furnace, halving the efficiency.

Also TB, thanks for the recommended reads.

Posted while you were PP, gas is also more familiar to me but diesel can run from vegetable oil, something I've always wanted to do, and that you can get for free from a restaurant.

[Coyote]

Personally you would have a struggle to
give me a gas tractor.

Diesels have a much better torque, lots
less maintenance, lots more power, Diesel is pretty simple,
Air In - Air Out - Clean Fuel - Adjust the Valves
every few years - Change the oil

I have an old crawler that had not run in more
than 30 years when I got it. Changed the oil,
pumped new fuel through the system. New fuel
filters, tossed a new battery at it. In less than
4 hours we had it up and running. Chanced it and
drove it home - 3 miles cross country - spent another
8 hours changing the gear boxes and finals and we
put it to work for 32 days, 12 hours a day pretty much
non stop, except for changing the fuel filters after several
days as a precaution.

Then it sat for 5 years. New battery, pumped up the lift pump
cranked it for 2 minutes and she fired. Jumped it on a trailer,
headed to the hills for 2 months of log skidding and then back
to set for 3 more years before we fired it up next.

Only time diesel's are a pain is in the very cold, and not very often then

Coyote

[Prairiepiss]

That's what I figured you would say.