please help: yeasty tasting /smelling distillate

[T-Pee]

Every wash has foreshots, heads, hearts and tails. There's no getting around it.

yep i fully get that and am not trying to sound naive i just understood it to be not quite so relavent unless your really trying to get picky.

Fores = poisonous
Heads = burns like the dickens
Hearts = Tasty, pleasant to drink
Tails = Smells like wet cardboard and tastes weird

Which part do you want in your glass?

tp

[bearriver]

Dude, rerun it. PP already told you the poop. He wasn't lying.

If you take your stuff and water it down to say 40-60 proof, the flaws will jump out of your glass and into your nose.
Also try taking last nights glass that you drank from, unwashed of course, and smell it. Don't be surprised if it smells like wet cardboard, or something else unpleasant. Those are the terrible cuts that your probably smelling.

I just looked up the price of your still. I retract my previous statement. No matter. If your serious about this hobby, you'll have several stills by the time your satisfied. I hear your neigborhood has the best copper pipes and fittings in the world with zero lead content. Another reason to build you ask? Why yes, it is.

[Bagasso]

it has honestly improved by over about 90% on the smell of yeast that was there 24 hours ago to almost being non existent / the sweet ish/ ethanol smell is probably overpowering any of the last yeasty smells that are there.

It was probably not really a yeasty smell that you were detecting.

Airing out lets the compounds with lower boiling points to evaporate. I think the biggie is acetaldehyde. The smell is usually described as green apple or fruity but wikipedia says that as a wine fault it is described as nuts or dried out straw.

Who knows but it has a boiling point of 20.2°C; 68.4°F so if 24 hours later the smell is gone it may have been it.

[goose eye]

Id be careful listening to any place that got a vested intrest of separating you from your money.
You ain't gotta have all the latest whistles and bells to make good likker.

So I'm tole

[BDF]

Redistill it (water it down to %40 or less in the boiler), and collect it in tiny jam jars (after throwing out the fore shots). Let them air out for a day or two, and taste how the flavor throughout the run changed.

Keep what you like, discard/redistill/Use for cleaning what you don't like. In the most basic sense that is making cuts.

[hitek redneck]

yep i fully get that and am not trying to sound naive i just understood it to be not quite so relavent unless your really trying to get picky.

in my mind if i try make a white rum or white spirit etc i heard you need to filter them a few times make them smooth and mellow to not have extra tastes. these cases i would try do cuts and seperate out best of the best.

If you have to filter it for it to taste good your doing it wrong. I make rum and its quite drinkable after the first run and a few days air.. then it just gets better with time.

HR

[trig]

so we just had a night of drinking and we tried the homebrew aswell..

definately a " yeasty" smell its quite familiar like when baking bread etc you just know that smell....

still tasted of it, especially when put with soda water etc "watering down" it was still apparent that yeasty taste and smell was in it, not as bad as the days before but stil there. we are going to re run it through the still.

i would love to have custom made a still but our building skills are not that great and it was hard to find information... only found this forum after i had done my first batch and was trying to find answers to what had happened...

also the information i got was from people i knew whose home brew i had tried and like all saying its a fine still for getting started and giving decent results / ease of use etc..

we payed 700 bucks wich is probably around 500 US dollars for the entire kit, i know this could be alot more then custom building but i would be to paranoid about doing that myself without alot of help from experienced people in that field.

i dont have like 20 small jars i can filter every 200 mills into.. whats the next best option?

take out the rough heads just collect say 2 litres of the hearts and then try seperate last 1 - 1.5 litres of potential tails? i could find some cups to do this but i dont really have that many spare jars etc..

[Prairiepiss]

You spent $700 on a still. You can go spend another $10 on a case of jelly jars. It's worth it.
Or go buy a case of beer. And use the bottles.

[NZChris]

I used 330ml RTD bottles on my last run.

Op shops usually have a good selection of suitable jars with metal lids.

[trig]

yea will do.. ok so, if i re run my 40% waterd down neutral back through the still i dont need to take the foreshots do i? i already took them out in first run?


also i see the post about making cuts, but thats for pot still.. if this stuff is coming out around 90% all the time, do i just add a 5 :1 ratio roughly of water when sampling / trying to combine later on?


also after smelling the batch today, it has almost no yeast smell at all but only when watering down further and tasting you get that yeast come through.. wonder what it is

[BayouShine]

also i see the post about making cuts, but thats for pot still.. if this stuff is coming out around 90% all the time, do i just add a 5 :1 ratio roughly of water when sampling / trying to combine later on?

You still have to make cuts, regardless of what still you use. Just because you're collecting at 90%, it doesn't mean you don't have fores, heads, hearts and tails mixed in your 90%.

The reason you have a high ABV% is because you have much less WATER being collected than what a pot still will do. There's no about of moonshine magic that will turn the entire run into drinkable spirits.

[trig]

yea sorry im probably wording this wrong and rushing the explanation.

when people make their cuts from the pot still guide anyway, they add some water to sample it and decide on what to do with it next, do i just have to add a 5:1 ratio of water to make it about 20% when i sample it ?

i already have taken the foreshots out in the first run, im just trying to re run it through to get rid of more impurities, but do i need to take foreshots out again? are they present is more what im saying.. im gona try make proper cuts and sample them this time but just wondering about that foreshots thing mainly

[BayouShine]

If you follow the Novice Guide to Cuts, you should have taken a minimum of 150ml of foreshots for a 25L wash.

I would suggest reading the thread as it answers all of the questions you're asking.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=11640

[Truckinbutch]

Pull foreshots any time you run . Collect in small jars or small quantities in larger jars and let them air our before you blend . Why is it that you keep insisting that we tell you how distilling will work the way you want it to instead of the way it really works ?

[NZChris]

Some would throw out the next foreshot. It's only 50mls. It's up to you.

You got stinky stuff in your drinking likker. It either came at the start, or the finish and if you are really unlucky, in the middle. If you want to keep it out in the future, you are going to have to do some cuts to learn where it is. You might be able to do it on the fly, but I wouldn't recommend that for a beginner.

To sample, put a teaspoon each of your likker and water in a glass to knock the proof down, give it a good swirl or put your hand over it and shake it, then sniff, slurp, savour and spit. Breath the fumes out of your nose. If it ain't good, don't put it in your drinking likker.

You can probably get away with only doing small cuts at the start and finish, and using large containers in the middle of the run.

Keep good records so that you can learn from your mistakes and successes.

[trig]

yea thanks chris its hard for me to write exactly what i mean, people are starting to think im just brute forcing my way forward i really am trying to learn and ask just to be 100% safe and sure on what im doing or i feel people answer my questions in a non direct manor by guiding me to a different variant of my question.

the foreshots are poisonous because they contain acetone amongst other things right? i have removed the 50-60 ml in my first run which could now be called a stripping run as i am going to re run it through to try make cuts. Im asking if i have to remove the " foreshots " again, as in, is this acetone still present in the alcohol. is it a chemical reaction with heat in the alcohol that gives of this acetone + other harmful stuff,

in other words if i re ran my same batch of distillate back through my reflux still 5 times 10 times would i have to remove the foreshots every time, would they be present every time. ( im re running it because i dont like the taste that has come out in the end) so do i need to take out foreshots again, every timei want to re run.

[NZChris]

I've never run a reflux, so I don't know. Just feel it, sniff it, if you're not sure, toss it. It's only 50ml. Toss some in a hot coffee or some Coke, that always brings out the nasties if you've got any.

I chuck out more than you do from my pot still every time I run it.

[trig]

yea reflux still like this says not necesary to throw out so much, only need to throw about 50 ml but then again it says the way it works theres not much difference between ur hearts and tails etc so dont need to seperate it out but apparently thats wrong so who knows

[T-Pee]

TRig:

Seriously, train your nose and taste buds to tell you where the cuts are. You don't need to taste the fores. Your nose will smell the acetone. Your taste buds will point out the burn of heads, the comparatively tasty smoothness of the hearts and the smelly weird-tasting tails. I use a shot glass on the fly to sample as I go. It takes a very small sample to point the way. Your senses will tell you where the cuts happen. It's pretty cool actually.

tp

[trig]

hehe yea im looking forward to understanding these smells tastes etc allot further right now im definately not used to any of it...


once i get like 20 jars or maybe il just buy an 18 box of rtds and re use those bottles i will redistill it into 200 ml segments and start learning what the differences between them are.

just a note on something, last night , i have carbon filtered 1 time to try remove some of the impurites. its at 40%.

my brother took some of the same un filtered stuff home and put it through his carbon water filter, like 5 times, and it came out at 30% obviously he left some water in their and its taken it down a bit. when trying his straight it was quite easy on the tongue no burn or harshness really just that alcohol flavor coming through. we tried mine and as soon as it hit the tongue it was quite harsh burn, flat mate had smirnof 40% vodka that we tried as a " general vodka comparison." which was easier on the tongue then mine.

however once adding with coke everyone said apart from that slight yeasty smell taste it went down easier then a same mix of the smirnoff vodka.. dono whats happening here haha

[BayouShine]

we tried mine and as soon as it hit the tongue it was quite harsh burn, flat mate had smirnof 40% vodka that we tried as a " general vodka comparison." which was easier on the tongue then mine.

That harsh burn is the heads.

however once adding with coke everyone said apart from that slight yeasty smell taste it went down easier then a same mix of the smirnoff vodka.

That's the tails you're tasting.

Just think how good it would be if you cut it correctly...

[trig]

lol yea dont worry im really keen to chuck it back through the still but since ive never cut before i need like 20 bottles to segregate out 200 mls at a time and just smell taste most of them and start by only mixing the purest clean i can then work in a little bit of the heads tails watever i can


thanks for saying that yeasty taste and smell is the tails im tasting your the firt person to really say that thats probably what it is.. everyone else saying probably the wash... good to hear different stand points

[BayouShine]

Just go slow and take your time. You'll get it.

[trig]

its just so strange to me how i smell the 8.5 litres that are left of my filtered 40% neutral and smells of no yeast at all, maybe the slightest hint but you have to smell it on the tip of your nose not by putting your entire face over it, same as in a glass... but when mixing it you sure can taste it a bit.. i know smell is part of taste if i can succesfuly remove this in my re distilation il be sooo happy

[MitchyBourbon]

Id be careful listening to any place that got a vested intrest of separating you from your money.
You ain't gotta have all the latest whistles and bells to make good likker.

So I'm tole

I may have to change my signature to this quote!

I have begun putting that at the end of emails I send to my colleges at work. I don't think its gonna get me a raise but its good for a laugh.

[bearriver]

Trig, a few pros have given to you pure gold on a silver platter in this thread. As such, I am curious why you haven't read the new distillers reading lounge yet....Seeing many of your posts (after) members have told you where to get the mandatory information you NEED is embarrassing.

Do yourself, and everyone else a favor. Don't type another word until you have read the entire New distillers reading lounge. All of it, even the the stuff you think you already know. Then come back here and read this thread again. You will get my point when you do. I know this isn't what you want to hear.....but I wouldn't say any of this if I didn't want you to be happy with your time spent here on these boards, and this hobby in general.

To paraphrase Rad here: You are essentially telling a Nascar driver you want to be a racer, and then asking how much air to puts into your tires.

[trig]

this is so true i am so happy for some of the information people have given me, and i have spent quite a bit of time reading the new distillers lounge with probably the most informative post being from another NZer Kiwistiller on this post http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 60&t=46216

this is exactly the type of still i had and alot of people were giving me pointers on a pot still and things to do with that, when i dont have a pot still ( yet ^.^) it is something i intend to slowly extend into in the future, for now i can only stick with what i have and try to make this particular one work for me... which is why i posted a few times along the lines of " people giving me slightly of topic information"

the information given is still relative to some degree but i was really just trying to get a few specific queries answered and it seemed to be just going round and round in circles basically...

anyway that aside this website / forum is amazing and has alot of information but alot of people are used to pot stills / their home made copper reflux stills that have more controls on them etc then what i have and operate in a slightly different manner, appreciate every single feedback post given to me, some extremely valuable info learned in past few days here.

my many thanks to all

[gazeuse]

no matter how much you smooth it out you got lots of heads and tails in there...no way,wont do it.quality all the way not quantity.

[trig]

im all for quality haha just from the way it is written and described is with this still and the way it works after you take out that first 50 ml of heads / foreshots the rest is a high quality spirit and the difference between your hearts and tails is almost non existen and doesnt have to be seperated..

the slightly older version of this still had 2 thermometers , 1 at the top of condensor and 1 at the water outlet, now they only have 1 at the water outlet, and say with product improvement its not neccessary to have that temp at top of condensor, from what im reading that IS important to note...
however that is not an option for us as we have the " newer " model that only has the 1.. putting emphasis of controlling that outlet temp is the #1 thing to watch

the flavour could be the heads and tails in there, it could be the wash i got, it could be mixture of both, when i restill it sometime next week i will cut it 200 ml at a time and play around with the smells tastes mixes etc...

[pounsfos]

whatever your friends have told you about the T500, don't listen to them, they seem... uneducated (not stupid, they just don't know)

The T500 is not the best still in the world, but for a novice, it's a starting point, I've ran one, a few other kiwis on here have ran them

you always have to make cuts on any still you are using INCLUDING THE T500
so on a 20L wash at 14%
expect roughly
50mls of foreshots
100mls of heads
couple of litres of ethanol
and some tails

collect in small jars and wait a couple of days, smells them, water them down and taste and go from there

turbo clear, turbo carbon, turbo anything is just a scam, to get rookies like you to spend more money... trust me I've been there done that moved on and never looked back

What I did like about the T500 was that it has a thermostat cutout thing, so when it hits like 92c or something it shuts itself offf, good for iff you fall aasleep or walk away and forget about (not that you would as you should keep an eye on it at ALL times) but it means you won't burn out that stupid built in element that you can't replace

not that you would run a T500 in pot still mode to those temperatures as it says in the manual that the synthetic gadskets will start to degrade and leech into your product

were not yelling at you, we are just trying to give you addvice, and a long story short, that yeast smell is from crap cuts,

also everybody, there are a few places in NZ that do this, and they are legitimate, but if you want to make sure lets put it like this, if you ask for a GST reciept and he says no... don't go back there

I would also ask what his recipe is so you know whats going into your still.....