Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

:ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin:

I have a recipe in the T&T! Thank you to all who tried this and commented, here and in the many PM's I received. Lately there's been a flurry of folks trying All Grain mashes on HD. I'm REALLY happy to see that. Whether you try this one, or NCHooch's NCBourbon (where I learned), AG's are not difficult. Get that mash temp dialed in, cheat with calculators (see link at bottom of this recipe), I do, and watch a couple other things close and youll be cranking out bourbons and whiskies before youknow it. And when you taste the fruits of your labor after aging up 4+months, you'll be hooked.

Again, thank you, to everybody, those that replied, and those that I learned and continue to learn from. This is a great hobby, and great site, that can keep you challenged and entertained for a lifetime.

Cheers friends,

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by acfixer69 »

Congratulations Jimbo

Bout time, your posts are always informative or humorous or both. This one is on my list soon as the BOP is built.

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Sudzie »

How many potatoes in how much water would you use for mouth feel in a 40 gallon bourbon mash?
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

I have a new spin on the Gumballhead part of this recipe. After you strip the low wines, soak a pound of peat smoked malt in it for a week. Then seperate and do the spirit run. Its subtle but just enough smoke comes over to hide the sugarsnap. Makes a really nice drink to drink straight up. I call it Smokeyhead. The Gumballheads I use for mixers and pantydroppers. The Smokeyhead is nice as is.

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by buflowing »

Jimbo wrote:soak a pound of peat smoked malt in it for a week
Give it a month, it gets better.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Skeena »

Question on the toasted oak...how many sticks do you put in a quart jar? I think I read early in the thread 1...is that correct? I would think that it would take several to flavor the 'shine.

Btw...just ordered my mop bucket and wringer...what a great tip!!!
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

I use 1 stick per quart. 1x1x5" long. Charred on all sides and then soaked in water for a couple hours. Aging process takes 4 months minimum (independent of the oak) so Ive found this amount of oak works in the same amount of time giving something nice to drink in 4-6 months, but keeps aging nicely for much much longer without over oaking if you just leave it alone forever. This is all to personal preference, but be careful not to over oak and make Oak Tea. See that problem a lot.

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Skeena »

Sounds good...thanks for the info!!!
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by midwest shinner »

Man Jimbo, I'm so sorry that I'm so far behind on this, but a huge congrats on making the tried and true. its bout time one of your recipes made it with how great of a drink you make... Good on ya, there's nobody more deserving. keep up the hard work :mrgreen: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by jarheadshiner »

Probably got too many irons in the fire as it is Jimbo, but might as well have a go at this one while I have the time too. :D

Got plenty of malted white and red wheat on hand but no malted barley. What do you think of just using all malted wheat and omitting the barley? Would it be worth a try or not? If I did try it, would I be better off with 5 lbs white/3 lbs red, or vice versa?

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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Thanks Mike.

Jarhead, sure, wheat malt and corn would be fine. As far as white or red wheat, I dunno. All ever get around here is red for the raw wheat. And no idea what the Briess and Dingemans wheat malt use. I saw a post from P where he compared them once, forgot where or the details. Maybe he'll chime in.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by jarheadshiner »

Thanks Jimbo. I have malted red and malted white wheat. I'll use it like I mentioned then. Gonna be a few days before I do anything though. Got a foot and a half of snow since 4pm yesterday so travel is a little sketchy right now. Will post up results here when I can.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Bos4me »

Howdy looks like a great recipe and I've just started trying it but I ran into a little problem. I followed the steps but it looks like my corn wasn't completely pasteurized and now I have what looks like fermentation going on it's bubbling maybe it's just lactic acid( pretty smelly) I don't know. do I have to throw away the corn or can I just reheat back up before I move forward to next steps to re-pasteurize it?

Thanks!!!
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Hi Bos, how far did you get? you poured the boiling water over it, and after a few hours you mashed in with the malt at 145F? Give me a little more info and Ill try and help.

I had some issues earlier this winter with some bags going off, and since started washing the corn in buckets of warm water and draining before using it. Also, have better luck dropping the temp right away after mashing and pitching a good healthy yeast starter to get the 'good bugs' going strong earlier. Letting it sit overnight at prime bacteria temperature before pitching yeast Im finding is a gamble.

Anyway, let me know more details and Ill help you
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Bos4me »

Hey jimbo I boiled, added corn and then let sit...more like 24 hours stirred couple times no issues, and temp was still warm, went to work came home from work......and well... I'm guessing lactic infection by the smell, but it was also bubbling? So had not added the malts etc...pure corn. You know come to think of it.....I didn't have any backset, so I added so lemon juice to help With the ph..... And I did that after the boil!!! Dooh!! So, I have it coming back up slowly using the oven method, to bring it up over 200 again. Just wondering if I am waisting my time now and if I should dump and start over?? See, this is what happens when we don't follow directions!! :wtf: Thanks for your help ;)
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Wow that's really odd then. Nothing but boiling water and corn above pasteurization temp. Hmmm :?:
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Bos4me »

Hmm seems like it might be a loss?? Chalk this up to growing pains, pitch this batch and start over?
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Describe the smell.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

rockchucker22 wrote:Taste it, does it taste sour, sweet, dry? Sounds like it started.
Started on starch? No malt yet. Just a bucket of cooked corn.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Bos4me »

Smells like puke! :thumbdown: Stunk up the whole house!! I tried to heat back to over 200 but the smell was just getting worse and it was boiling even harder. I got temp back p to 170(oven) but had to quit trying and bring it outside!! Not a big deal to throw away only a couple of bucks and corn and some time and maybe a good lesson. :ebiggrin:
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Kelbor »

Figured I'd post here rather then PM as this might be a more common question…

Any how, I pitched my yeast last saturday night, today is friday. fermentation room is at 70 degrees (f). I checked the mash temp at max ferment and it was 76 so I moved it to a cooler room and it dropped down to around 72. My hydrometer says .994 and the majority of the thick cap fell a day ago. I was going to strain it now and run is tomorrow or sunday but Im second guessing myself because it still looks active. The best way I can describe it is large slow bubbles but the air locks are not going crazy - Maybe a bubble every 15 seconds.

Strain now or wait a day or two??
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

If youre at 994 youre done. The few bubbles are likely trapped CO2. It will all get released when you squeeze it out. Time to run it :)
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Fills Jars Slowly »

Hello there, I just posted my welcome message here: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 27&t=46536. It has a picture and description of my still and tells a bit about me. I just tried this wheated bourbon recipe for my first go at distilling. Some folks might advise against all grain the first time, but I don't reckon I would listen to them :wink: I have been brewing all grain for some time and am well acquainted with mashing procedures, pH management, etc.

As I pondered the recipe my figuring led me to think that I might have a hard time recovering 12 gallons of wash to strip given the original recipe quantities. I also wanted to plan for poor efficiency in the mash, this being my first rodeo with a cracked corn heavy mash bill. Long story short, I decided to scale up the recipe a bit and used 36.5 pounds of grain total and 14.5 gallons of water ( gypsum added and pH adjusted to 5.5 with lactic acid). I near-boiled the water in my 20 gallon extra-big-ass pot, stirred in the corn around 10PM, wrapped in blankets and let sit overnight. The next morning the temps were still in the mid 170s, and the corn was gelatinized. I pointed a fan at the pot stirring intermittently until the mash was in the mid 140s, added the milled wheat and barley malt, and threw in some of the Amylase Enzyme Formula powder that you can get at the brew store (what the heck, get all the conversion we can, right?). I wrapped it back up and waited about 4 hours, then removed the insulation, pointed a fan at the pot, and stirred intermittently to cool down from 140. It took a long time to cool down (8 hours?), and I ended up dumping it into 3 HDPE fermentation buckets and pitching a right smart quantity of WLP005 British ale yeast grown up in a stepped starter when the wash was in the low 80s. In all, it was something like 24 hours between wetting the corn and pitching the yeast. I could reduce that time by actively chilling the mash to cool to pitching temps, I guess. I chill wort all the time when making beer. Have not seen it as much in reading about distilling.

Anyhoo, the mash was very effective and I had 17+ gallons of glop at 1.069 in my three buckets. The airlocks (OK, so I am a brewer) took off right away and bubbled happily for the next 3.5 days. The fermentation smelled heavenly, of sweet corn and fruity esters and malt. On day 4 the primary fermentation was clearly winding down, and I decided to take a gravity reading to see how much attenuation had occurred so far. My intention was to let it go 6 or 7 days as it is also my experience that yeast will clean up some byproducts if left to go a bit longer after the bulk of fermentation is done. Well, when I opened up the fermentor and harvested enough glop to get a sample from, I got a distinctive tang of acid/puke aroma along with the nice smells. This is definitely an infection according to my experience, and since the gravity reading indicated the wash was below 1.01 (about 8% abv), I decided to run it right away in the hopes that it would work out ok.

I strained the glop through mesh bags, squeezing all I could from the grains, and ended up with a still charge of 12.5 gallons, cloudy with yeast and smelling a little of vomit. 

I ran this through the still, discarding the first 6 ounces, and was left with 9.25 quarts at a total abv of 37% according to my proof hydrometer. The stripping run started at about 57% abv, according to my parrot, and ended with the distillate coming out at about 18% abv. I ramped up temps pretty slow due to the yeasty wash, and I ran at a collection rate of about 2-3 liters per hour over most of the run.
Here is where my quandary is. I have never made “moonshine” before, or had any of anyone else’s that I recall, so I don’t know what these low wines should smell or taste like. I would not call them nasty, but there is definitely a lot of smell/flavor not only of corn, but something a bit more reeky. The closest I can peg it is kind of a mid to lower shelf tequila aroma. It also reminds me of some new make type stuff I had at a craft distillery years ago, with almost a turpentine, acetone bent to it. Maybe it is just heads and tails. Maybe it is distillate of puke infested wash. At any rate, I will be running it again to see what the final product is like, and I will definitely be forging ahead attempting to ferment without infection.

I plan to try to chill the mash faster and shorten the time before pitching the yeast. Any other pointers would be appreciated, as well as opinions as to the fate of my first low wines. With my 15.5 gallon boiler can I run the 9+ quarts of 37% low wines alone in a spirit run, or do I need more volume? If I have a subsequent non-infected wash I kind of hate to mix it with this...

Thanks for reading the length post!
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Sounds like you might be ok. You didnt mention puke in the low wines flavor weirdness. Yes the low wines taste odd, since theyre heavy in heads and tails, youll get an acetone + wet dog funk. It cleans up in the spirit run, and again in the cuts you make. Volume is fine. Liquid expands 1500 times going to vapor. It will find the exit just fine.

Im finding getting on the steps bang bang, especially cooling the mash and getting the yeast going pronto gives consistently good results. Let stuff sit around at prime bacteria temps for hours and hours is begging trouble. If you brew, you must have a wort chiller, sanitize and drop it in after after 90 minutes mashing. It works good to froth up and oxygenate the mash too by sloppin the thing up and down in teh mash or using a drill mounted paint paddle to whirl the mash in vortex around the cooler, aerating all the while.

So to your flavor questions.... spirit run, cuts, and aging on oak are 3 more important steps before your tongue will enjoy that stuff. ;)
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Fills Jars Slowly »

Thanks for your input, Jimbo. As a brewer I have to get used to the fact that when distilling, practically the whole process is "cold side", and treat sanitation accordingly. I typically have very good sanitation, but then again, I have never fermented anything that hasn't been boiled...

I think shortening the time that the mash is in the danger zone prior to pitching is probably key. I have all kinds of wort chillers around here...
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

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Fills Jars Slowly wrote:Thanks for your input, Jimbo. As a brewer I have to get used to the fact that when distilling, practically the whole process is "cold side", and treat sanitation accordingly. I typically have very good sanitation, but then again, I have never fermented anything that hasn't been boiled...

I think shortening the time that the mash is in the danger zone prior to pitching is probably key. I have all kinds of wort chillers around here...
yup me too. its weird at first, but you get used to pretty much sanitizing everything before it touches anything. With brewing you can be careless all the way up to getting the cooled wort in the barrel and pitching yeast. Hell even the wort chiller can be dropped in the boiling wort as is right off the hanger. Not so in whiskey mashes.
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Fills Jars Slowly »

I performed the spirit run on those low wines last night. I think it is fine. The hearts are pretty clean and the heads and tails smell "heady" and "taily", no puke. I collected 4.25 quarts into 1/2 pint jars and covered loosely to air overnight. Next thing is cuts then aging. Thanks for the help!
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

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Jimbo wrote:its weird at first, but you get used to pretty much sanitizing everything before it touches anything.
Yep, I'm anal with my sanitation. I have my spray bottle of no rinse sanitiser, and I completely soak the wort chiller (even lifting it up and spraying the bottom), before it goes into my precious whiskey mashes. I even spray any mixing spoons that are used during fermentation to mix the cap back in...over the top? Maybe. Have I ever had an infection? Not a single one :ebiggrin:
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Fills Jars Slowly »

Hi Brendan. I am trying to get a handle on the important process control points in getting a whiskey mash to ferment without infection. Sounds like you have a good routine for success, having never had an infection. That I can recall, everything that came in contact with my mash was soaked in Star-San, so there must be some other difference. My working theory is that I didn't infect the mash with dirty paddles, etc. after heating the corn, but rather the time between the corn cooling below 150 or so and the yeast getting a good start was too long, allowing organisms already present to get a foothold early and compete with the yeast with some success. My mash went somewhere around 12 hours between cooling to barley/wheat conversion temps (mid140s) and pitching the yeast. My hunch (and Jimbo's too, I think) is that in addition to being anal about sanitation so as not to introduce bugs that are not already there, it is important to cool down the mash and pitch the yeast some bit quicker than I did to outflank the bugs that were on the barley and wheat or that fell in from the air at some point. Can you confirm how much time elapses for you between mashing in the barley and wheat and pitching the yeast? I am not sure if the time the corn spends above 170 or so is important at all. Most bugs are dead or dying at those temps, not reproducing. Also, Jimbo mentions rinsing the corn with warm water to clean it up a bit before cooking it. I didn't do that. Do you?
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Re: Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

Post by Jimbo »

Brendan wrote: Have I ever had an infection? Not a single one :ebiggrin:
Tempting fate there sir. Youre guarenteed to have one now LOL :mrgreen: Im anal about sterilzation too, even have buckets of double strength starsan sitting around when Im brewing, for whatever. But still have infections occasionally. Had a rash of em early winter. Decided it was some Dingemans Belgian wheat malt I was using in my bourbon. When it comes from your malt, not much you can do about it. No boiling after mashing in this playground. Washing feed grade grains now too, even tho those are pasteurized during gelatinization.

There's always gonna be bacteria around, and in your hooch. Its about controlling the levels and ensuring yeast always win the race. I read a interesting report about bacteria load in distilleries. How they colonize all the piping and equipement, and not much you can do. The trick is keeping it as low as possible and not setting up environments for them to get all giddy and fired up. Like 100+ temps for hours and hours. I no longer let mashes sit overnight now either. Wort chiller and a large yeast starter. Gotta give them the advantage :)
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