A better way of detecting tails...

[zirtico]

I ran a batch of my 100% barley single malt some time ago, but now as I've drunk it more, the tails are more noticeable each time. It's not a bad whisky but when I drink a Glenlivet, the smoothness just makes me want to make my cuts that much better. Incidentally, another batch of 100% barley malt is fermenting right now, but only about 15 litres of wash. I have about a litre of my last whisky (43% ABV) in a bottle which I've decided to combine with the low wines of the current batch before I do the spirit run on it. It'll give me another opportunity to separate the hearts from tails.

Last batch, I kept sampling and for the life of me, I could not detect the change from hearts to tails. Toward the tail end of my last spirit run (pun intended), I was getting 45% ABV but it didn't taste too different from the hearts so I collected it. Yes, that was a noob mistake. I don't plan to make that mistake on this run. Do any of you have good tips on detecting the tails? This time, I don't care about quantity. It's ALL about quality from here.

I plan to collect low wines until I get an average of 30% ABV, then add feints and my old whisky before the spirit run. Tips would be appreciated.

[zaph1]

Put your cuts under a paper towel and wait a few days before you make cuts. I've had the same issue only to find that a few days later the tails were easier to ID.

[ga flatwoods]

Look for the end if the sweetness of the heads. Depending on your still you may have more or less smearing of the two. It is a subtle difference. Collect in smaller jars if you have to.
Ga Flatwoods

[zirtico]

Yes, I think I will have to collect in smaller jars and wait before mixing the cuts.

@ga flatwoods - the heads are pretty easy for me to tell. I can tell when the sweetness rolls off and the cleaner hearts start coming out. It's the tails that I was having problems with.

[T-Pee]

Tails smell/taste funny. It gets more pronounced after a couple of days airing out.

tp

[Odin]

Just wait a few years and those tails will make your whisky very impressive. When doing a single malt, going into tails is not a bad thing. It wil add tremendously to the final complexity. If you have time.

Odin.

[T-Pee]

Odin's spot on here. I've started leaving a little of the "early" tails in my whiskeys. It adds some flavor and complexity to the product. Just don't overdo it.

tp

[T-Pee]

Same goes for apple brandy since the flavor comes off early in the heads.
Glad Jimbo clued me in on that so I could get some flavor in my AB run. Turned out pretty good...even if it did have some sugar in the ferment.

tp

[junkyard dawg]

yeah, don't sweat it too much.

I think too much time gets spent on cuts. Its not bad to get some heads and tails in the mix. Proper aging will take care of any negatives you might initially think you have. Over time they just might become awesome flavors.

If I were making 100% barley I would add lots of late heads and go pretty deep into tails. After some time, things will settle into an equilibrium and be just right. Keep in mind that commercial producers would keep almost everything... Just a little cutting will produce spectacular results if you can let it rest for 6 months or more...

[Jimbo]

Your Glenlivet has lots of tails. But its 12-18 years old. If you dont have a year or 2 for the tails to mellow and help yoru spirit develop more character put them in a marked jar in the back of your cabinet. I promise after a year or 2 you will try it and say WOW, and maybe then decide to blend them into whatever whiskey you have around at the time.

[Halfbaked]

I think Jimbo is talking about what I called hard time likkker. You make this the last likkker you drink (with a date on it) shoved in the back unless you run out. Its still gonna be better than gobberment likker.

[junkyard dawg]

uh, what?

[T-Pee]

uh, what?

Exackly.

tp

[Halfbaked]

Leave it in the back of the cabinet to get good after a year or 2. If you run out of likker you are having a hard time. You drink it then if you gotta have something good to drink but not unless you have to. Hard time likker.

[Jimbo]

Thats not what I was saying. Tails, from ag's at least, lose that cardboardy wet dog thing and gets tasty after age. Heads never lose that aldehydey bite. Keep feints seperate and try the tails after a year or 2. Youll be surprised. Some early tails goes in all my whiskey. Adds a nice grain flavor.

[zirtico]

Wow, I never knew so many people were such big fans of tails!!

What made me think the Glenlivet didn't have much tails was the fact that compared to my whisky, any decent 12 YO Glenlivet/Glenfiddich is much lighter-bodied and cleaner tasting. My whisky definitely has a LOT of grain flavour and its not bad at all, but I like a cleaner, lighter spirit. Starting with an 8% wash, I remember the last sample I measured on my last spirit run was 38% ABV, which I knew was WELL into tails and it was much more flavourful than the hearts cut, but hadn't got too bitter yet, which is why I kept it.

The commonly known rule of thumb around these forums is that the "middle-third" cut is roughly from 75%-55% ABV so to keep some early tails, I might collect down to 50% to get some early tails, but I think I'd rather not go into tails too deep. I'll ultimately decide by taste, but I'll use ABV as an indicator.

[rager]

tails are pretty easy for me , usually start around 80-70 abv. smell and taste change but for my rum not bad. I will ad them to my hearts. by 60 then collect to 40 abv they get oily and end up in the fients jar. id much rather have some early tails then heads in my drink.

[Jimbo]

Zirtico, if u like a cleaner whiskey try triple distilling a batch Irish style. With a potstill youll still get plenty flavor over but with a cleaner profile. I do a five grain whiskey this way, interesting from all the groceries, but a clean easy drinker. I finish it with sherry soaked wood after first aging on charred oak to get one more twist in there.

[T-Pee]

I find I get the same effect running whiskey wash at 88% on my CM. Definitely corn whiskey but a clean, light flavor...especially if I include just a bit of the early tails.

tp

[woodshed]

Tails collection is dependent on your product and what you are trying to achieve. Is it going onto wood for awhile? Unaged requires a different cut. Making cuts as though it's all the same spirit will not maximize your wood time. And that cut depends on how much time you want to spend on the wood. I have had 12 year old scotch where you could easily pick out tails.
What you find not acceptable for your drink you can always throw into the next run. Then dial your process and stop all this small jar action.

[zirtico]

I stripped the batch yesterday and did a nice slow spirit run today. I threw my tailsy whisky at 45% ABV and feints from my last batch into the low wines. The low wines were at about 36% and I stopped the stripping run since it seemed to be getting a LOT more oily than usual. Overall, with everything mixed together, the spirit run started with around 40% ABV. The fores came in at about 88% ABV, pretty high, and the usual, sweet, fiery solvent-y heads came from around 87% to about 84%. From the jars I was collecting, the first two were exclusively heads, and from 84% is where hearts started coming in until 81% at which point it became pure hearts. Nice, clean flavour coming through and noticeably better than my tailsy whisky that I threw into this batch. I was happy to be able to instantly notice tails starting to come through starting at around 68%; flavourful, but not too bad. I collected till 66% and stopped (as I am after a lighter whisky). I then ran it hard and collected a decent amount of tails and turned things off.

For a while prior to running this batch, I had soaked 3 oak sticks (light/medium toast, light/medium char), roughly the size corene1 uses, in my old whisky before I re-distilled it. Some of the caramelly redness from the charred wood seeped into the whisky which is what I was hoping for. I took the sticks out before running this batch of course, and added them after making my cuts and cutting to 60%. It's only been in the white lightning since this morning, but I can see the faintest hint of amber (rather than red) coming through, which is what I was expecting! (see picture)

I think my cuts were tight and I definitely didn't let the greed ruin my product. I'm expecting great things from this batch! Now for the toughest part - keeping my hands off it!

[Odin]

I hope that's not alufoil on top?

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

I find that there is a spot in the tails. That has some really nice flavors in it. For me its around the 3 jar into the tails. It's different then all the other tails jars. I like to use that jar for my tails blending. Just a little will do you. It's easy to over do it. Because it does have some nice flavors in it. It's deceiving. When I first started. I had a really hard time finding it. My wife found it every time. I had read about the rum oils coming over in the tails around 30% ABV. But never read this about anything else. So I thought it was rum only. But she was finding it on my all bran runs. I didn't notice it real good till I did a corn batch. Man did that jar have some nice corn flavor. Since it was the first time I could really notice it. I used to much. And to me ruined the blend. But that batch was made for a wedding gift. And the recipient loved it. After that batch I really started noticing that jar. It doesn't always have a flavor of the ingredient used. In the case of all bran and my AG wheat. It had more of a nice smoky flavor.

Many stop before they pull this jar. So they never find it. I think that's a shame. Because I think it makes for some better blending then the early tails. For whitedog or aged on wood. Of course less is used for whitedog then stuff to be aged on wood.

I've never done a single malt. But from my experiences with all others. That jar is always there in one form or another. And is well worth looking for on all recipes.

Edited to add.
Forgot to say. Airing the jars for 24 to 48 hours helps find the tails cut a lot. Diluting the sampling down to 20% to 30% ABV also helps. It will make flavors more pronounced and easier to find.

[Drunken Unicorn]

I find that there is a spot in the tails. That has some really nice flavors in it. For me its around the 3 jar into the tails. It's different then all the other tails jars. I like to use that jar for my tails blending. Just a little will do you. It's easy to over do it. Because it does have some nice flavors in it. It's deceiving. When I first started. I had a really hard time finding it. My wife found it every time. I had read about the rum oils coming over in the tails around 30% ABV. But never read this about anything else. So I thought it was rum only. But she was finding it on my all bran runs. I didn't notice it real good till I did a corn batch. Man did that jar have some nice corn flavor. Since it was the first time I could really notice it. I used to much. And to me ruined the blend. But that batch was made for a wedding gift. And the recipient loved it. After that batch I really started noticing that jar. It doesn't always have a flavor of the ingredient used. In the case of all bran and my AG wheat. It had more of a nice smoky flavor.

Many stop before they pull this jar. So they never find it. I think that's a shame. Because I think it makes for some better blending then the early tails. For whitedog or aged on wood. Of course less is used for whitedog then stuff to be aged on wood.

I've never done a single malt. But from my experiences with all others. That jar is always there in one form or another. And is well worth looking for on all recipes.

Edited to add.
Forgot to say. Airing the jars for 24 to 48 hours helps find the tails cut a lot. Diluting the sampling down to 20% to 30% ABV also helps. It will make flavors more pronounced and easier to find.

Old post I know, but I wanted to add to what you said. I use to find that tails cut and put that in my thumper instead of using rum oils. It can add a really nice flavor to the end product. I have my 2, 3 and 4th jar of tails sitting out on my last run. Waiting for my wife to stop being sick so she can smell them for me.

_Unicorn