uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[HDNB]

So I ran the stuff with what appears to be a lacto infection. Tastes fine, but when I did my next fermentation it immediately had the white film and bubbles. Is this something I should keep rolling with or do I need to start over?

On a different note, does the yeast in this method ever run out? Do I need to add more at some point? I'm on my 4th generation.

Your pH will probably go so far outta whack before you gotta worry about adding yeast. Some guys are up around Gen 15 with this.

gen 16

[Full_moon]

Im changing my yeast on my next ferment. I have successfully used Red Star Active dry yeast, (bakers yeast) pitched into the mash.

I want to try Red Star Distillers yeast DADY. Should I pitch it the same or rehydrate it 1st? or does it make any difference.

I know, if it aint broke, don't fix it, but I wanted to give it a go, and words of advice?

[Jackson455]

Hey jesse, i have a few basic questions. When u refer to backset u mean, the mash left in the still after distillation( first run). after this u take 25% of it and it back into fermentator with the left over corn and add sugar. Will the yeast die when its left with the corn and no water. Or do u leave just a little water to cover the corn and then put 25% of the mash back in after the first run, with a some new water and sugar.

[Bushman]

Hey jesse, i have a few basic questions. When u refer to backset u mean, the mash left in the still after distillation( first run). after this u take 25% of it and it back into fermentator with the left over corn and add sugar. Will the yeast die when its left with the corn and no water. Or do u leave just a little water to cover the corn and then put 25% of the mash back in after the first run, with a some new water and sugar.

That is what I do. After I charge the boiler I cover the corn with about a gallon of water on a 5 gallon bucket, this sits overnight as after I do my run I collect the backset adding the proper amount of sugar while it is hot then let set overnight to cool prior to adding it back into the fermenter. Then add what ever extra water to bring it up to the proper amount. After the 2nd generation I usually remove about 1/5th of the corn, and add new. Trying to get out the spent corn is hard as some floats but not all. Corn is cheap so I don't worry about it.

[Jackson455]

Thank you, thats a lot easier than i amagined. So i dont need to add yeast after the distillation.the mash i have working now has been going for a little over a week. so i sart this process after the first fermation is done.

[Bushman]

Correct, it might be a little slow starting but will take off.

[T-Pee]

Should I pitch it the same or rehydrate it 1st? or does it make any difference.

If you don't hydrate the yeast before pitching, half will die. That means there is less viable yeast to get to fermenting and a slower start.

tp

[Supertrucker]

Got 20 gallons bubbling away, on its fourth day now. Wash is beginning to get a bitter taste, so I'd say we're close to completion. While studying on what is going on during the fermentation, I've come up with a newbie question.
Why is the first run considered a "sweet" run? During the course of fermentation, won't the corn sour, and be soured by the time the wash is done? If it wasn't, there would be no need in adding a percentage of the dunder back to the fermenting vessel for the next batch, right? I understand that adding it back to the next wash will add more flavor, just wondering about the "sweet" designation, and if I'll have anything worth drinking out of my first run.

[HDNB]

others would argue, but i would say you will likely have a jar or two in the middle that will be quite drinkable.

the sweet designation is simply that no backset was added to the ferment.

[Brendan]

The 'souring' of sour mash is called so due to extremely low pH of the backset (ie. acidic = sour). This is added to the next mash/ferment to lower the pH of the mash (making it sour), which provides an optimum environment for the yeast.

The first wash with your corn in there will slowly lower in pH over the ferment (souring), but you want the pH at an optimum level to begin with where possible (the following ferments). There are also flavour benefits to including the backset.

Because the first mash hasn't been soured (remembering it's only a mash before the ferment, then it becomes a wash), it's called the opposite of sour, sweet

[Supertrucker]

Ok, thanks guys. I intend to add the first run back as UJ says, just thought I might try to pull a jar out and try it! I'll let y'all know how it goes!

[T-Pee]

Nobody sez ya can't!

tp

[NZChris]

If you haven't got anything else to drink it'll be pretty good

[Brendan]

You can also make a pretty easy sour corn starter...have a look in my signature block

[CanadianBacon]

None of the corn from the first batch looked spent to me so I just added 3.5 more pound the second time around. Anyone got any tips on telling if the corn is spent? I Know I will have to take out some corn next time around cause it will keep adding up.

[crazyk78]

I take off the too layer that is quite pale. You'll notice when you remove it the bottom layer is bright yellow. Then just top up with the amount you removed.

[moosemilk]

I take off the too layer that is quite pale. You'll notice when you remove it the bottom layer is bright yellow. Then just top up with the amount you removed.

+1
There is a very noticeable color change of the spent corn. I have found that sometimes the spent corn will float when you add your water back, but not always. Scoop off the top almost white layer after you rack off.

[Axdelmar]

Bumping this wonderful thread..
Did my first spirit run yesterday...heads were strong/high proof 160..Hearts lasted much longer then I expected, Tails...WHEWEEEE knew when I hit them! Proof dropped right off and I nearly beat my dog for getting in the bottle. Airing out and blending today. All in All, I would have NEVER gotten to this point, if not, for all you Troopers.
Big Thanks for making me READ READ READ! I still have another 3 gals of stripped wash left to do a 2nd spirit run, but will wait until I strip more. I figured out I was cutting my stripping run off WAY too soon...tossed a TON of good taste in the yard. (Makes awesome weed killer) Not sure how the worms felt about that...

My water is VERY (3.6)ph low, out of the tap. Any suggestions? Also..how important is a (CLEAR) wash. I've been caning out of my ferment tank into a bucket, then right into still. How would that effect things?

[T-Pee]

My water is VERY (3.6)ph low, out of the tap. Any suggestions? Also..how important is a (CLEAR) wash. I've been caning out of my ferment tank into a bucket, then right into still. How would that effect things?

I like using crushed oyster shell from the feed store for chickens. Add a couple handfuls. For me it has been stabilizing my washes at a pH of 5. The yeasties like it better that way.
Allowing the wash to clear keeps down the scorching...especially if you run electric.

p

[Axdelmar]

Gas fired pot still. My chickens are going to be very pissed...OFF WITH THEIR HEADS I SAY!
Ok..next stupid question...Ferment has been going 3 days, slowed way down. Tasted it, still sweet. SG in the tank ( not reliable) about 1.0 Started at 1.141. PH about 6 now. How high should keep my mash temps in fermenter..I have a water jackets 25gal tank. It looks to be about 75 degree's right now. Should I try an alcometer on it?

[T-Pee]

Gas fired pot still. My chickens are going to be very pissed...OFF WITH THEIR HEADS I SAY!

They'll get over it. It's for the "greater good".

Ok..next stupid question...Ferment has been going 3 days, slowed way down. Tasted it, still sweet. SG in the tank ( not reliable) about 1.0 Started at 1.141.

Gravity should be <1.000 on finish.
1.141 is WAY too high to start. The highest you should go is 1.090. You're stressing the yeast and it is probably why there is still sugar on tap.
You didn't follow the recipe, did you?

PH about 6 now.

5 is better.

How high should keep my mash temps in fermenter..I have a water jackets 25gal tank. It looks to be about 75 degree's right now.

Depends on what type of yeast you are using but that should be ok.

Should I try an alcometer on it?

What for?

tp

[CanadianBacon]

By the way I would like to say this recipe is great tasting. Even the first sweet batch tasted awesome.

[HDNB]

Ok..next stupid question...Ferment has been going 3 days, slowed way down. Tasted it, still sweet. SG in the tank ( not reliable) about 1.0 Started at 1.141.

Gravity should be <1.000 on finish.
1.141 is WAY too high to start. The highest you should go is 1.090. You're stressing the yeast and it is probably why there is still sugar on tap.
You didn't follow the recipe, did you?

tp[/quote]

add water maybe you can save it.

what part of the world do you live in that has acid coming out the water taps?

[Supertrucker]

Just to keep this up and make sure everything is going the way it's supposed to- I really figured I'd be doing my first stripping run today. Today is day 6 on my ferment, and it's still bubbling away! Not near as fast as it was, but definitely still working hard. Checked SG, it's 1.00. Soooo, I'll check again tomorrow. I'm really all up to get this done, but I also want it to be right. If the taste of the wash is any indication, it's going to be good stuff. A sour, yet almost creamy taste. Lots of spent corn on top, really white and soft. Everything sound ok so far?

[HDNB]

Just to keep this up and make sure everything is going the way it's supposed to- I really figured I'd be doing my first stripping run today. Today is day 6 on my ferment, and it's still bubbling away! Not near as fast as it was, but definitely still working hard. Checked SG, it's 1.00. Soooo, I'll check again tomorrow. I'm really all up to get this done, but I also want it to be right. If the taste of the wash is any indication, it's going to be good stuff. A sour, yet almost creamy taste. Lots of spent corn on top, really white and soft. Everything sound ok so far?

let it clear after it finishes. rack to secondary and clear overnight then rack to boiler.

[moosemilk]

Love this thread. Thanks for posting the oyster she'll idea TP, been using precipitated chalk (calcium carbonate) and I like the more natural approach.

And to Brendan for the sour corn starter. As you know I'm starting my first AG so i will take a stab at your method since I won't have backset for my first, unless I use some from my UJ...but I really want to keep my flavors "virgin" i guess you can say for my different mashes. Finally looking like I'll have a day to start my AG this week.

[Axdelmar]

DOH...too much sugar...argh! Back to measuring every thing...adding water now. Thanks All...oyster shells it is! I have a well...very old one..near the Chessy Bay.

[whitewolfrun]

coming back after being gone for a sometime just made up a 15 gal wash going to drop yeast once it cools and run it a few days thanks uj

[CanadianBacon]

cant taste alcohol in my mash on the second gen, just tastes sour. Smells like wine tho.

[moosemilk]

cant taste alcohol in my mash on the second gen, just tastes sour. Smells like wine tho.

Sounds about right. Check your SG. Sour means little or no sugar left. You won't always taste alcohol in your wash.