who ever tried that

[brewmaster2014]

Hey everyone,so I'm mostly distilling whiskey and rum,and I was wondering if anyone ever tried whiskey made from mash that was boiled vs one that wasn't,there is lots of for and against each of these method but anyone ever tried the end product side by side? I know the advantages for boiling the wort when making beer,I make beer on regular basis for years,so all I'm looking for is the taste difference, or no differences,of each method when it comes to whiskey.thanks.

[T-Pee]

You're essentially asking the difference between an AG and a sugarhead, correct?

tp

[bearriver]

I think he's asking how to do an AG mash without boiling the water.

The op is very vague...

[Jimbo]

He's asking if boiling the wort changes the flavor. I would guess it would. Boiling caramelizes the sweet wort. Caramelization flavors do come through the vapor in a still.

He says there's lots for these methods (boiling) which Ill disagree with, nobody boils whiskey mash. Beer needs to be boiled to extract the alpha acids from teh hops and to coagulate proteins and shit in the pot so the beer is clear (hot break, cold break bla bla). Whiskey is not concerned with either of those problems.

[Prospekt]

I've talked to a beer brewing friend and he said that if you boil your mash with grains still present, you're going to pull off some tannins and sharp flavours from the grain husks into your worts. I'm not sure if those flavours will carry over once you distill though. If you look at the "history" of maker's mark whisky - which I know is posted on these forums somewhere - you'll read that the founders cook their wheat gently without boiling it. They say that the wheat starts to put out some awful flavours if it's cooked too hot. The contradiction lies in when they load the mash (grains and all) into their coffey stills and blast it with super hot steam. That water has to be at least boiling....

[copper sweat]

It makes a big difference in flavor, some of my best whisky is from mashing just right, only enough heat to extract the starches. The best way to get an answer to your question is to try it. I know nothing about it and I'm probably wrong but I think it has something to do with the mallord reaction? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I have some corn that was cooked for a extended time at 165 f and some that I cooked at normal temps, they are the same grain bill but they taste completely different with the slow cook being the better of the two. It's hard to say for sure why they taste so different there are to many factors that go into play.

[Prairiepiss]

A wort that has been boiled compared to a wort that hasn't been boiled.

A couple things.

Boiling a wort will concentration it more. Making the SG higher. And concentrating the flavors more. All depending how much you boil. Not to mention the flavor changes from the malard reaction and the carmalization of certain sugars.

So yes there would be a difference in the end products.

But its not going to be something any of us could explain to you. Good enough for you to know if you would like it one way or another. So you will just need to do it both ways. And find out what works best for you.

And there are a few here that do boil there wort. It has more to do with sterilization then flavors. More like keeping dirty or potential dirty grains in check.

And it was already said about boiling with the grains. Will pull tanins out. That normally wouldn't be there. Mainly out of the hulls from barley or other hulled grains.

Such comes around to distilling on or off the grain also. Each has its own flavor profile. Only you will know if its right for you.

And I thought he provided plenty of info. To give him the answer he seeked.

To go more in depth. More info would be needed. But for a basic question that he asked. The answer is obvious.

[brewmaster2014]

Thanks guys,so yes I do know what boiling does and even if you boil for 90 min the carmelization is very minimal,I read here that one guy boils for 90 min and it was apparently the best whiskey he ever made,and yes you can boil with the grains,its called decoction mash,just have to make sure your mash ph is around 5.2 but only bourbon is fermented on grains,all this to say I appreciate your input and I guess I will have to try it myself.

[MitchyBourbon]

I have boiled wort from an ag mash 2 times. I did not notice any difference in flavor at all and I was looking for a difference but not for the reasons that we are talking about. I should note that the reason I boiled the wort was because I noticed that my wort had already begun fermenting. After mashing my malted rye and wheat with my corn, I chilled the wort and removed the grain. I don't ferment on the grain. Then I transferred the wort to my fermenters and put air locks on both. I came back an hour later with my yeast starter and both fermenters were bubbling away. I was not in the mood for an experiment with wild yeast so I transferred the wort back into my boiler and brought it to a full boil for 5 min.

I was worried that the wild yeast might have an effect on the flavor so I tasted it white after stripping and it tasted normal. So I combined it with another batch I had stripped earlier and did a spirit run. After aging it tasted exactly how I expected it too.

I only boiled long enough to kill off whatever had started fermenting so I don't think the wort had time to caramelize or concentrated. I would agree though boiling on the grain and boiling for longer would definitely change the flavor.

One last note, the Scotts boil their wort and there are a lot of people who like Scotch Whisky.

[brewmaster2014]

Thanks good info,glad you save your wort.

[Odin]

Boiling kills enzymatic reactions. If you step down your mash, and add malt at say 63 degrees C, do the conversion and let it cool on its own, you will get more enzymatic activity. Even down to 30 degrees C. Gives a more complex whiskey. What's against it (or may be against it) and what may be a pro for boiling and quickly cooling the wash down, is that it does gives you better control over lactic acid bacterial infections. Especially on all malts and when you do all malts all the time, thesse bacteria can become a severe issue. On the other hand: if you pitch enough yeast, the yeast will overcome the bacteria quickly. And even the bacteria add to the complexity.

Odin.

[RNaka]

Don't know for sure but I think Stranahan boils their wort. I presume so because I was told on the tour that they use Irish moss prior to fermentation to reduce protein. They also filter their wash before distilling. Not saying it's the right method, just that it's done.

[DuckofDeath]

My best is never boiled. I dough in at around 170 degrees and let sit. When it cools down to 154 I mix in my malted barley. it drops down to about 148 and I let it sit. After about an hour it drops to 146-147 and I start to fly sparge. I then cool to 90 and pitch my yeast. Makes the most wonderful smooth and tasty.

[Boda Getta]

D of D
Are you referring to a corn whiskey or another grain? If corn, are you saying you bring the corn up to 170 then let it sit and cool to strike temp then malted grain?
BG

[chambersranch]

I have found it almost impossible to add corn to cold water and then bring the temp to 170*F without scorching the corn. It's easier add corn to hot water, with a target of 170* after the cold corn is added.

[Jimbo]

I pour 210 water on corn for bourbon and hit 185. Wrap it up in an old quilt to hold temp for 3 hours. Stir every 20 min. Corns a bitch.

[DuckofDeath]

I make an all barley mash. 70% unmalted and 30% malted 2-row. Comes out very tasty.