Where can I find peated whisky malt?

[Odin]

I live in Holland and want to make some single malt. Peated. (medium to heavy). In Holland I can find a Belgium whisky malt that is lightly peated only. Around 5 to 6 ppm in the malt and that would give me around 3 ppm in my whisky. Not enough. I am more after a 16 ppm like Conamera whiskey. Or a bit higher still, to get closer to the Islay type single malts. Now I can buy Thomas Fawcett whisky malt too, over here. But nobody seems to be able to tell me how much ppm peatiness it has. Anybody any ideas?

Odin.

[hoserdude]

Odin, I looked after seeing your post, Northern brewer has it from 12-24 PPM at 1.99$ us per pound. They are here in the US, shipping would probably really suck.

[Prairiepiss]

Odin have you thought about smoking your own?

Your the person I would normally send someone in your area that's trying to find a grain.

[Odin]

Okay, Mr P, please explain!

BTW, I found out that Thomas Fawcett has 10 to 14 ppm. That will give me 7 to 10 ppm in my whisky. Not quite what I was hoping for (16 or more), but better than the 6 ppm on the stuff I could find up untill now.

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

Explain smoking your own?

Moisten some malted barley and smoke it with peat. Like you would smoking some meat.

[Odin]

So ... moisten the whole grains, put them maybe in a gas BBQ, and put peat underneath? What would good temps be? And doesn't the high temp destroy the amylases that turn the grain starch into fermentable sugars? Milling after peating, I guess?

Odin.

[Prairiepiss]

Your getting it. look at malting you own threads. And go by the temps used for drying the malt after being malted. If I'm not mistaken 90 deg f to 125 deg f is safe and won't kill the enzymes.

A cold smoke box would be best. And very easy to make. Just a box with a separate fire box plumbed together with some flu duct. Long enough to disparate some of the heat.

There is a thread around here somewhere. That someone was smoking all kinds if wash ingredients. Cornflakes, sugar, and some other stuff. He would put it in a brown paper bag and smoke it. The smoke would permeate through the bag into whatever was in the bag. If I find it I will post a link.

It's just a thought Odin. And I don't know how you would know how much ppm of peat smoke you got.

[Prairiepiss]

If you had some of the already peated malt at the lower concentration. You could compare what you smoked to it. By tasting the dry malt. When I bought the malt for a stout I'm getting ready to brew. The lady at the brewshop asked me which base malt I preferred. I looked at her and said. You know this will be my first AG beer. How am suppose to know that? Se reached in a couple of the bins and handed me a sample and said try it. I did. Then she gave me a second one. I tried it. And a third, forth. And asked which do you like the best? There was a big difference it them all. And one clearly stuck out to me as the flavor I would want in that beer. She told me the flavor you get from it dry is pretty much the flavor you will get in the finished product.

So with your peated malt you should be able to tell dry if it will have what you are looking for. If to little smoke it a bit more. If to much use less of it and more of the unpeated.

Just another idea.

[King Of Hearts]

You can also buy peat from a Scottish store, but since my supplier sells TF Peated malt I have no need to.

http://caledoniasbest.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Digital_Plasma]

This would also work. Although peat might be difficult to obtain. But when I smoke meat I use same technique and I don't use peat to smoke my meat.

http://youtu.be/Uny_knzPfSw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I do use wood that has been soaked in water for 24 hours. Depending on the flavor you are looking for, you can use different kinds of wood. But since we're talking about single malt, I think oak would be great for the task. I gives of a pretty neutral smoke flavor. As opposed to mesquite.
But after the soaking you wrap the lot in aluminum foil and poke some holes in the package. If using coals you would only need 5-6 briquettes. It only needs to heat the wood and not the grain. Place the coals an the package in the far side of the BBQ. How smokey you want it is up to you. I've seen some smoking it up to 30 minutes! Might be a bit much. But everyone to their flavor.

Hope it helps a bit.

DP

[Digital_Plasma]

Another thing that MIGHT be used is sphagnum moss... It's very similar to peat and I think it's also called sphagnum peat. It might be worth the shot.

DP

[Odin]

Having done more research to the ways in which Dutch maltwine is made (a whiskey base likker consisting of corn, malted barley and rye), I thought of applying those methods on single malt. Peated single malt. What I learned is that a Dutch (or Belgium) maltwine is fermented and distilled on the grain. I can't distill on the grain yet (at least not in bigger quantities), but I can ferment on the grain. So I took some 6 ppm peated malted barley and made a AG single malt from that. Fermenting on the grain. And is works. Not just on the "getting over grain taste" department, but also on the "getting over peatiness" department. Now 6 ppm aint much, but I think by fermenting on the grain I got over more instead of less. Usually in the distillation process like half of the peatiness is lost. Is your malt 10 ppm, you might end up with a 5 ppm drink. Now you may think that is a 50% loss, but actually it is more. Why? Because a distilled likker is a concentration of the wine or beer used to distill with. An 8% beer giving a 40% likker (drinking strength) is concentrated factor 5. So in distilling a peated beer, we leave behind much more if we only end up with say 5 ppm. It also explains the big variations. Some pro whisky makers get over 60%, others only 30%. Without taking into account the concentration factor that is.

My lesson learned? Ferment your single malt on the grain. I am sure my 6 ppm malt gave me a drink of more than 6 ppm. Due to grains being present longer (peated grains that is) and the concentration factor explained above. If I would guess, I would say fermenting on the grain gave me a peatiness closer to 10 ppm in my final product. I cannot test this, but it comes pretty close to the connamera I was after. And that has 16 ppm in the final product.

What I want to convey? If you only have low ppm single malt, ferment on the grain. You will get over more peatiness!

Odin.

[King Of Hearts]

Thanks for the tip Odin. Thomas Fawcett makes Peated Malt (Phenol 10-14).

[Odin]

I found the Thomas Fawcet variety. Had contacts with them. Very eager to help. Only, the Dutch distributor doesn't answer to my emails. I will give them a call later this week.

Odin.

[hanon]

Somebody really needs to produce a true highly peated malt. I found one company that claimed to make a highly peated malt...and it was listed at 25-35 ppm. 25 ppm is a Bowmore. What's a distiller to do if they want an Octomore?

[Prawnstarr13]

Faucets do a 40ppm heavy peated malt now it's from bairds but they only want to sell 10x 25 kg sacks minimum (up crushed,whole) £1016 per tonne divided by 4 (250kgs) but only sold with a pale malt minimum of 10 x 25kg sacks at £676 per tonne divided by 4 (250kgs)
Anyone for a group buy?

[Dan P.]

Faucets do a 40ppm heavy peated malt now it's from bairds but they only want to sell 10x 25 kg sacks minimum (up crushed,whole) £1016 per tonne divided by 4 (250kgs) but only sold with a pale malt minimum of 10 x 25kg sacks at £676 per tonne divided by 4 (250kgs)
Anyone for a group buy?

PM sent

[Jimbo]

This Briess Cherry smoked malt is really nice, very smokey. I used a small percentage in my 'Bonfire' smoked whiskey, along with peated and its a real nice flavor. This stuff is 15-30 parts phenols, Id put it in the high end of that, didnt take much to pack a whallup.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets ... ryWood.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Odin]

I found a 30 ppm variety and made 5 quarts of single malt with it. Dirty cuts, on purpose, so it still needs to age and age and age. But I hope it will give me that "ultimate" complexity I am after.

Regards, Odin.

[Dan P.]

This Briess Cherry smoked malt is really nice, very smokey. I used a small percentage in my 'Bonfire' smoked whiskey, along with peated and its a real nice flavor. This stuff is 15-30 parts phenols, Id put it in the high end of that, didnt take much to pack a whallup.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets ... ryWood.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The stuff I used in the past was (purportedly) 36 ppm phenol from Fawcett, used at 100% but still not quite enough for that salty sea tang I crave, though of course there is the question of how a peated malt is best used, given that so much peat lies at the tail end of the spectrum.

Odin, Castle/Chateau produce a whisky malt, being a Belgian firm they shouldn't be too alien to your climes. Do not let them fob you off with the "whisky light" or "peated malt" both of which are useless for our (and in my opinion any other) purposes;

http://www.castlemalting.com/CastleMalt ... ge=English" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Never tried it myself, and have also often wondered how they peat the malt. Belgian peat?

[Prawnstarr13]

Dan I got mine from the malt miller it's is really peaty (+36 phenol) but I have found it gets peatier by the day ageing !!
25kg crushed was £44plus delivery next day pretty much and he crushes it for you (bairds will not)

[Prawnstarr13]

Odin the fawcetts heavy peated is the same stuff the Islay malts use its as strong as you get!!
Send me your address by pm and I'll send you some of mine over!!

[Odin]

Great! PM sent ...

Regards, Odin.

[ShineRunnah]

Odin, I have sprouted, smoked and dried my own barley a few times now, and it's not all that difficult. I bought Scottish Peat to use for smoking, and it seemed to work well. I would like to find a source that sells different grades (there are different layers in the peat bed, all of which produce different flavor in the smoking process), but I have yet to find such a source.

This is what I have used. I am not sure of the availability in Holland, so you may need to research it.
http://caledoniasbest.com/shop-all/scot ... ning-peat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I built a small smoker about 5' tall and 28" x 28" from pine boards and made removable "shelves" with fine metal screening for the barley to lie on (think of a window screen with a sturdy wooden perimeter frame). I spaced the shelves about 8" apart and left 24" between the lowest shelf and the heating element below. I would also rotate the shelves periodically to allow for even heating and smoking
I used a pair of 120v electric hotplates as the heat source, and would simply place the peat in a metal cake pan atop the hotplates to create the smoke.

The amount of heat and smoke needed depends on how much peat flavor you desire, and if you choose to toast the barley.

You don't need anything quite as elaborate as I have, I only made mine as large as I have as it is also used to smoke meats. As simple store-bought smoker would likely do just as well, and I have read of many people using such smokers with good results.

I will be honest in telling you I have by no means perfected the process yet, but I achieve acceptable results, and I continue to improve with each batch produced.

If you are interested in peated barley, I would recommend smoking your own, if for no reason other than as a learning experience. It's obviously not as easy as buying a sack of peated barley malt, but it is rewarding and fun to learn about the process.

[Dan P.]

Dan I got mine from the malt miller it's is really peaty (+36 phenol) but I have found it gets peatier by the day ageing !!
25kg crushed was £44plus delivery next day pretty much and he crushes it for you (bairds will not)

I was getting it from him too, and he offers a very good service and price, but the price for the heavy peated jumped from £30 to £44, which made me want to shop around as £44 is just outside my justifiable expenditure limit.

[Dan P.]

This is what I have used. I am not sure of the availability in Holland, so you may need to research it.
http://caledoniasbest.com/shop-all/scot ... ning-peat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I wouldn't recommend paying those prices except as a last resort.
If you wanted to smoke your own peat on a regular basis, I might get in touch with a firm in the UK or Ireland who deal in peat and work out a shipping cost for a couple of kg, as I pay £5 for 20kg sack of peat (though I'd be surprised if the sack actually always weighed 25kg!).

[Odin]

Odin, I have sprouted, smoked and dried my own barley a few times now, and it's not all that difficult. I bought Scottish Peat to use for smoking, and it seemed to work well. I would like to find a source that sells different grades (there are different layers in the peat bed, all of which produce different flavor in the smoking process), but I have yet to find such a source.

This is what I have used. I am not sure of the availability in Holland, so you may need to research it.
http://caledoniasbest.com/shop-all/scot ... ning-peat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I built a small smoker about 5' tall and 28" x 28" from pine boards and made removable "shelves" with fine metal screening for the barley to lie on (think of a window screen with a sturdy wooden perimeter frame). I spaced the shelves about 8" apart and left 24" between the lowest shelf and the heating element below. I would also rotate the shelves periodically to allow for even heating and smoking
I used a pair of 120v electric hotplates as the heat source, and would simply place the peat in a metal cake pan atop the hotplates to create the smoke.

The amount of heat and smoke needed depends on how much peat flavor you desire, and if you choose to toast the barley.

You don't need anything quite as elaborate as I have, I only made mine as large as I have as it is also used to smoke meats. As simple store-bought smoker would likely do just as well, and I have read of many people using such smokers with good results.

I will be honest in telling you I have by no means perfected the process yet, but I achieve acceptable results, and I continue to improve with each batch produced.

If you are interested in peated barley, I would recommend smoking your own, if for no reason other than as a learning experience. It's obviously not as easy as buying a sack of peated barley malt, but it is rewarding and fun to learn about the process.

Thanks for sharing. Great story!

Odin.

[ShineRunnah]

This is what I have used. I am not sure of the availability in Holland, so you may need to research it.
http://caledoniasbest.com/shop-all/scot ... ning-peat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I wouldn't recommend paying those prices except as a last resort.
If you wanted to smoke your own peat on a regular basis, I might get in touch with a firm in the UK or Ireland who deal in peat and work out a shipping cost for a couple of kg, as I pay £5 for 20kg sack of peat (though I'd be surprised if the sack actually always weighed 25kg!).

I'm going to look into finding a better supplier eventually. The real cost will inevitably be shipping, as shipping for a 20kg sack of peat is probably 10-times the actual cost of the peat, if not more.

I don't smoke my own barley all that often, and I don't use much peat when I do. It was really just an experiment to learn about the process and see if I could produce decent results.

[Dan P.]

This is what I have used. I am not sure of the availability in Holland, so you may need to research it.
http://caledoniasbest.com/shop-all/scot ... ning-peat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I wouldn't recommend paying those prices except as a last resort.
If you wanted to smoke your own peat on a regular basis, I might get in touch with a firm in the UK or Ireland who deal in peat and work out a shipping cost for a couple of kg, as I pay £5 for 20kg sack of peat (though I'd be surprised if the sack actually always weighed 25kg!).

I'm going to look into finding a better supplier eventually. The real cost will inevitably be shipping, as shipping for a 20kg sack of peat is probably 10-times the actual cost of the peat, if not more.

I don't smoke my own barley all that often, and I don't use much peat when I do. It was really just an experiment to learn about the process and see if I could produce decent results.

I wasn't trying to be one of those "you pay WHAT??" assholes, my post was more addressed to any European readers, or those with European connections.
In the event, you might want to look into any online Irish-American stores. It is still a widely used fuel in Ireland, and the standard form is compressed peat briquettes which are just peat, stamped BNM (Bord na Mona).