Experiment to speed aging

[ShineRunnah]

As I understand it, part of the aging process comes from the temperature and barometric pressure changes that aging warehouses experience, both from the temp swings between day and night, as well as seasonal changes.

That said, I have decided to try to speed up time, so to speak.

I have a cabinet that is 2' tall, 2' wide by 12" deep which will be used for my experiment. The cabinet will be placed in my unheated storage shed behind my woodshop. And as I am in NH, it is darn cold this time of year.

Now for the experiment. I have installed a small electric heater, controlled by a thermostat, in the cabinet that will be run on a timer. It will cycle every 6 hours, and heat the cabinet to 95F when it is on. During the time the heater is off, there will be small vent fan which will turn on and bring in cold air from inside the shed, cooling the cabinet to whatever the ambient temp in in the shed (currently 28F).
The cabinet will contain a 3-gallon oak barrel of whisky, as well as a few 1/2-gallon jars with my oak lids and charred/toasted oak sticks inside. I will have an identical barrel and jars in my house to be used as a "control sample" for the test (they are in a closet that has remained between 62-68F).
I am hoping to find out if essentially creating more warms days and cold nights per 24-hour time period will speed the aging process.

I plan to perform the test for at least 3 months, though I may let it go 6 months or more. I started the test 6 weeks ago this sunday, and will check results in another 6 weeks. The jars in the cabinet did begin to darken faster than those in my house, so it may be having some degree of an effect. I have not yet checked the barrels.

I will update in 6 weeks once the initial 3-months has passed.

[FullySilenced]

[S-Cackalacky]

Interesting experiment - keep us posted.

[bearriver]

This looks like a great idea.

However I feel aging and oaking are two different things. You may be able to get it to oak faster by manipulation of the environment, however I doubt anything but time can effect the "aging". Hence the term.

Yesterday I saw on (YouTube) a scotch distillery open a 50 year old cask. It contained over 300 bottles of high proof when sealed but less than 100 bottles at %43 abv when opened. To my surprise it didn't look dark at all. Actually the color was very light in shade. In 50 years it had not been heavily oaked, but it was heavily aged. There is a difference IMO.

[aquavita]

have been thinking about speed aging as well.

It seems that the "bite" or harshness that goes away over time does so because of oxidation.

Have been pondering a SS airstone hooked up to a small bottle of medical O2. In theory, you could get a whole lot of oxidation done in short order.

[Lazarus Long]

There is a certain mass associated with the liquid and the barrel staves as well. 6 hours may not be enough time to allow a complete temperature change and adequate depth of travel in and out of the charred staves for the flavor you are after, and I can see where it would reduce the time spent in contact with that part of the stave.

Not saying its a bad idea, as I do this myself with a deep freeze chest and the August sun. However, I have found three or four days in the freezer and then another three of four in the sun works to my liking (About a week for a full heat/cool cycle). Some things can only be rushed so much, hence the specific results obtained from aging.

I've never done a 6 hour cycle before, but have done as little as 2 days and prefer the longer cycle.

[thecroweater]

I think your idea will work well for accelerating ullage with the barrel but be prepared for a higher rate of loss. with the jars this is flavouring not aging, if your in a hurry it will flavour quicker but you may be somewhat disappointed with the results as you find the more soluble compounds in the oak extract faster, this is why freshly oaked spirit tastes like baked arse and is often mistaken for over oaked

[ga flatwoods]

Be very careful with that small of a barrel or it may overoak much more quickly than you may realize. I use pin lock corney kegs. Pressure them up on occassion but not fully. The pressure will ease off gradually. Aids in oaking not aging.

[Bushman]

In commercial environments they also rotate the barrels and since heat rises they move barrels from the bottom to the top of the pile. There has also been so experiments with base sound waves and the vibration created by music. If my memory serves me correctly Woodshed has done a bit of this. Also agree with the others that it might help slightly with aging but probably does more with flavoring.

[DFitz]

I've used a similar approach during the winter months. Seems there was no appreciable difference (barrel aging) leaving barrels in freezing/sub zero temps over winter versus conditioned heating exception of the amount of time it took to get a good finish. My barrel sizes are 5 & 10 gal. So patients is the main variable in my aging process anyway.

[thecroweater]

hmm remains to be seen, I see a greater medium term result with aging rather than the oak tea stuff, heard of guys hanging barrels in shed rafters to get movement and max heat changes to speed things up, got at least a few distilleries in au that use ultra sonic waves to speed things up but their losses are high and the tax office will take that in account for them

[Bushman]

hmm remains to be seen, I see a greater medium term result with aging rather than the oak tea stuff, heard of guys hanging barrels in shed rafters to get movement and max heat changes to speed things up, got at least a few distilleries in au that use ultra sonic waves to speed things up but their losses are high and the tax office will take that in account for them

That's interesting crow, both Odin and I use a 1/2 gallon US cleaner to sometimes kickstart our products (I believe it does more for flavor than aging) and it works. I do not notice any loss during this process which I expected because it does heat up a bit but it's covered and maybe the 3 ten minute baths are not long enough to see a difference.

[bellybuster]

as far as over oaking, I don not believe it exists. How else can you explain spirits on oak for 50+ years. There is some out there been on oak for 200+ years.
I have experienced that heavy oaky flavour and found it is simply a stage in the aging process.... a quite early stage at that. My 3 gallon barrel has been full of UJ for 8 months now and is just starting to get real good.

I have tried most of the "speed aging" methods and have come to the conclusion there is no aging going on at all. Time ages

[corene1]

I have been doing some reading on this and so far it is showing as stated above oaking and aging are two very different processes. I am no chemist but in layman's terms. The oak gives up it's flavors very quickly to the alcohol in the form of tannins. The flavor phenols in the alcohol interact with those tannins and over time create the nice subtle fruity flavors you find in older whiskies. You can pull the tannis out faster and get the oak flavor quickly giving the impression of the whisky being over oaked, but only time will create a truly complex whisky. The use of once used barrels for Scotch and Irish whiskies also create a color and flavor change. Also mentioned above is the interaction of the whisky with the air from hot to cold making the barrel breath , so to speak causing minor oxidation and bringing in flavors from the surrounding area. Identical barrels of whisky aged in the desert will develop different flavors than one aged by the ocean. I certainly want to keep a eye on this as it is a very interesting subject.

[S-Cackalacky]

I read most everything that comes along here on the forums about aging/flavoring. I get the feeling that we're only beginning to scratch the surface. I've mostly been nuking with JD chips and then doing the aging in 1 gallon glass jars. The nuking seems to do a good job of suckin' the goodness out of the chips, but what really seems to mellow the flavors is babying it through the actual aging. I think everyone here would agree that introducing air is a key element in the aging process. Whether you do it naturally in a barrel or somewhat artificially by periodically shaking and airing in a glass container, the results would seem to be pretty much the same. I get something better than store bought with just a few months of aging using my current method. I hope to move forward with other methods - like what T-Pee has outlined in his thread, or something similar to what's being introduced with this thread. But, I'm not sure that what's being outlined in this thread would translate well with using glass.

[bellybuster]

Whether you do it naturally in a barrel or somewhat artificially by periodically shaking and airing in a glass container, the results would seem to be pretty much the same.

I couldn't disagree more, prior to having barrels I would have agreed but since barrel there is no substitution. There is good likker out of these methods for sure but you just can't replicate what goes on in a barrel, whatever that may be.

[S-Cackalacky]

Whether you do it naturally in a barrel or somewhat artificially by periodically shaking and airing in a glass container, the results would seem to be pretty much the same.

I couldn't disagree more, prior to having barrels I would have agreed but since barrel there is no substitution. There is good likker out of these methods for sure but you just can't replicate what goes on in a barrel, whatever that may be.

Well, for those of us who can't afford barrels, I guess we'll just have to remain blissfully ignorant.

[corene1]

As you probably know I have been working with a toasted oak lid for my jars to let them breathe , I have some that have been in those jars for 6 months now and some of the identical whisky that has been in standard mason jars. bot have equal amounts of toasted and charred oak. I have to say the whisky that is constantly breathing with the oak lids id substantially smoother than the whiskey with the standard lid. As a side note I have not opened the lids on the jars with standard lids to let them breathe. Someday I would like to get some small barrels though.

[ShineRunnah]

Thanks for all the replies!

Thecroweater, my jars have oak lids, and thus they are able to breathe in nearly the same way a barrel would. In my experience, jars with oak lids produce a much smoother whisky than do jars with normal lids, even if you open the normal jars every few days.

I had thought of the shorter hot/cold cycles affecting the penetration of the liquid into the oak, and the time it spent there. This is part of why I am using barrels as well as jars with oak sticks. I'm thinking as the oak sticks are submerged in the oak, it may act differently than the barrels do. Time will tell. Besides, if I knew what would happen, it wouldn't be an experiment!

As for the barrel, it came from a local winery owned by a friend's older brother. It was used for small test batches, and last contained Marechal Foch (3 times filled). I understand their prior contents will add some flavor to the equation, which is part of the reason for the second "control" barrel. And as it has already seen multiple fills, I don't think there will be any issues with "over-oaking".

As a side note, I received 3 other used barrels from the winery, all 3-5 times filled. A 3-gallon Malbec, and two 5-gallon barrels, chardonnay and an apple wine. At $40 a barrel, I figured it was worth it! They were essentially "used up" for his purposes, but I'm hoping to get at least one good fill from each. And at worst, I add some inner staves. I have been wanting to play with wine barrels for some time now, and this seemed the perfect opportunity. He was kind enough to leave a bit of wine in each barrel as well, which should assure good flavor addition to my whisky. I'm thinking of partially filling the Malbec barrel with Madeira wine, but I haven't decided yet.

[ben stiller]

This is a great thread with some interesting facts and some theories that seem to be backed up by
real experience. My question is if it is believed that over oaking does not exist then should we leave the oak
in the bottles until aging is complete or still remove it after several months? I am using chips at this point but
will use strips later on.

[thecroweater]

what people are calling over oaking is a bad composition of solubles in your likker, chips and renowned for this as they have a hight ratio of end grain to side grain allowing the spirit to get right in to the pores rapidly dissolving resins and tannins. longer in may just allow more of the same or over a long period of time should sort its self out

[S-Cackalacky]

Anyone here know what the significance of temp changes are on what goes on inside the barrel/jar? That is, is it the change in temp or the resulting pressure changes brought on by the change in temp, or a bit of both? I would assume that the pressure changes promote the movement of the spirits in and out of the wood. I would also assume that over time there is a diminishing benefit to what the spirits can extract from the wood. Seems that there's almost too much going on inside the aging container to comprehend. I'm wondering just how much of it we can ever control by artificial means.

Corene, with your wooden lids, do you store the jars standing or laying on the side? I'm thinking of trying to devise an inexpensive way to produce the lids - like a hole saw to cut the blanks and some sort of router jig to thin the edges down.

[Jimbo]

Ive read anecdotal statements from distilleries where they say very little happens in the winter months, and the heat of summer really moves the aging (presumable they mean oaking) along. Think about it like a pot of water on a stove, and how easy things dissolve in warm water and not in cold.

As liquids cools and warms there is a definite pressure change in the barrel as well. Its slight, but its enough to push and pull liquid into the pores of the wood, dissolving and pulling the oak lactones out of the pores.

Im curious about angels share. In humid environments the barrel will lose ethanol and drop in proof. In dry environments the barrel will lose water and increase in proof. Thats fascinating. Ive always wondered what compounds have a tendency to escape through the wood. Some on here have stated aging and angels share lets the 'bad shit' out, aledehydes, lower alcohols etc. Im not sure if thats true or not, havent been able to find any reports or write ups on that.

[ShineRunnah]

S-C, small wood lathe if you have access to one, how I make mine and it works well. Otherwise, hole-saw and router would work. You could even pattern rout them from scratch. I've been a woodworker for a long time, lots of ways to make wooden lids.

As for whats going on in the barrel, I don't think even the big distilleries know the full explanation yet. Not sure anyone ever will. However, it seems to be that most feel smaller barrels age faster. Quarter-casks are becoming common in Scotch Whisky, and they seem to produce a more mature whisky in much less time than standard casks. You can buy a bottle of standard 12yr old and test it beside a bottle of quarter-cask to see the results for yourself. I think there is something to the smaller cask.

I had some whisky that sat for 4 years on oak. It was a bit "woody" at first, but after aeration and a few days to sit, it's some of the best whisky I've ever made. I plan to fill some of my new barrels and tuck them away in a cool area and forget them for at least 5 years, and I'm not at all concerned with excessive oaking. I believe that is caused by use of poor quality wood and/or not enough time aging.