Black aspergillus for Okinawan awamori

[Paracelsus]

Any insight here on where to obtain this? Different from the white aspergillus used to make shochu. I will be asking through my Japanese shochu contacts, but i didnt figure it could hurt to ask here.

[rtalbigr]

I haven't got a clue, but what are you wanting to make Paracelsus? Is this a type of Sake?

Big R

[Washashore]

Just did a quick google search for "aspergillus niger" (I'm assuming that's what you want).

You can order it online here: http://www.carolina.com/product/155928. ... l_products" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Paracelsus]

I haven't got a clue, but what are you wanting to make Paracelsus? Is this a type of Sake?

Shochu, Awamori, Lao-lao, Baijiu, and several other Asian spirits use various strains of aspergillus to convert the fermentables in the same way as Sake is produced. I am interested in making all of the above.

[Paracelsus]

Just did a quick google search for "aspergillus niger" (I'm assuming that's what you want).

You can order it online here: http://www.carolina.com/product/155928. ... l_products" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks very much for that link, but I am pretty sure the Okinawan strain is harder to come by. Any idea if common black aspergillus will work? I'm wary of unpredictable byproducts - though I did have a friend (a professional brewer) who did a distillery tour through Kentucky and Tennessee and observed the mold growing everywhere.

[blind drunk]

You might like these -

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/05/f ... hare/all/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.maltmaniacs.org/whisky/scotch-18.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Paracelsus]

Derp, found it:

http://www.shochucircle.com/koji.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.gemcultures.com/soy_cultures.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[blind drunk]

So the only difference is that the black one is more durable, from what I gather. I found koji infected rice at a Japanese grocery store in town. It took a while for me to actually get my hands on it, as they were always out of stock whenever I went looking. I was surprised at how popular it was.

[astronomical]

I have a few strains. I was actually just thinking about finally doing this. Keep us posted on your progress.

I juts found this in depth article on making Koji.

http://www.taylor-madeak.org/index.php/ ... ewing-sake" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I thought it would be interesting to try using koji on a typical whiskey grain bill. My understanding is that if I get proper gelatinization of starches that the Koji should be able to convert it in the fermenter. Could be a really interesting all grain whiskey.

[Paracelsus]

I thought it would be interesting to try using koji on a typical whiskey grain bill. My understanding is that if I get proper gelatinization of starches that the Koji should be able to convert it in the fermenter. Could be a really interesting all grain whiskey.

I agree. I think the koji process offers a number of advantages over western techniques.

One thing I want to try to do is resurrect long-lost Millet-based Awamori. Millet whiskeys are slowly coming on the market, and I have found it to be a fascinating grain for making beer.

[GuyIncognito]

I've been searching for a while to find a black koji strain for similar projects but haven't had any success. http://www.akita-konno.co.jp/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow looks to have exactly what I'm looking for, but I received no response to inquires about whether they could ship to the US. Reading around makes it sound like the black koji is difficult to contain and can containment material and equipment pretty easily, so if you find some might want to be cognizant of that while sporing it.

I've make shochu from Cold Mountain's packaged koji rice (which is what I've been able to find at Japanese grocers) as well as sporing Vision Sake brewing tane-koji onto rice (http://www.visionbrewing.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow). The fresh spored koji seemed to have quite a bit more enzymatic power, and I liked the taste slightly more.

In general, I've found making shochu to be damn hard. I've done carrot, rice (really just running some sake I made and wasn't loving), potato, japanese sweet potato, thai black rice, some with additional barley/sugar some without. The ferment is pretty slow and seems susceptible to acetification (black rice and carrot both seemed to lose a fair bit of alcohol yield to lactic/acetic ferment). The dissolved solids in the mash make it difficult to clear and whatever compounds are formed seem to respond pretty poorly to heat/cooking while distilling. I've heard a lot japanese shochu distillers use a vacuum setup to get around this. I've got another sweet potato mash I'm waiting on, I think I'm going to try pressing the whole mash then cold crashing it to see if I can get some of the sediment to drop out before running it. The real kicker is everyone I know pretty much hates even good shochu, so I'm not totally sure why I keep trying...I've you've got some advice on it, I'd love to hear it.

[GuyIncognito]

Someone else on the board linked to this site for something, but they have kuro-koji. Not sure how order works, the price shows up as $275 so I'm not jumping up and down http://www.atcc.org/ATCCAdvancedCatalog ... fungiYeast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Paracelsus]

GuyIncognito - thanks very much for the links.

My friends in the Shochu industry assure me that they do not use vacuum stills, ever, at least for honkaku shochu. ko-rui shochu though, its possible.

Your experience made me realize i need to master sake brewing first.

[Paracelsus]

Hahaha well I guess the egg is on my face - low-pressure stills have been used in Shochu production since the 1970s.

Finally back to this quest after more than a year. Just wanted to thank everyone again for their help. Ordering the spores and a temperature controller for the incubator. Time to get cracking.

[GuyIncognito]

Where are you ordering the spores from? I never found a place for anything except sake koji.

There is a shochu distillery in Seattle now called Evenstar Shochu (http://seattleshochu.com/page/3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) I talked to the guy at a distilling event but he wouldn't tell me what type of koji he was using. Their product was pretty good, but very very light tasting which isn't what I like in shochu.

[Paracelsus]

I never did find a source for black Koji. The search goes on, but I have made many new connections in the community, and my Japanese language ability has improved substantially, so I think it is only a matter of time until I track it down.

I will eventually be ordering yellow koji from gem cultures, but they sure don't make it easy. I have cultivated a supply of spores for white koji by letting some cold mountain komekoji develop fruiting bodies, and will be experimenting with that for now.

[Paracelsus]

Found it:

http://www.akita-konno.co.jp/en/seihin/01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Actually several Japanese labs that serve the Shochu/Nihonshu/Awamori industry now have English websites.

[GuyIncognito]

That was the link I posted earlier in the thread - Were you actually able to order from Akita Konno? I tried to send them a purchase inquiry a year or so ago, but never received a response. Also, are you located in the US or in Japan?

[Paracelsus]

Shoot, how did I overlook that? Feeling a little sheepish now.

I'm in the US. I have not tried to order yet, I have been using Gem Cultures koji kin so far. I am going to ask my friend to write them a very businesslike inquiry in Japanese. I am also tempted to try going through a service like this: http://whiterabbitexpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow , which is basically a fulfillment service for Japanese goods not available in the US.

[GuyIncognito]

Their site is very tantalizing, it seems cruel to put all that information in English but not have it be available in the US. If you make any inroads in purchasing let me know, I'd be interested in splitting shipping/an order or something with you (I'm in the Pacific Northwest region).

[smellslikechicken]

Were you ever able to order from akita konno?