How to carbon Filter

[Bushman]

Different methods have been used in industries for creating a more neutral spirit, is one way better or worse than another? I don't have the answer as I have not compared the different methods in a controlled experiment. With the different methods we are trying to remove any aminos, fusil oils and aldehydes that may be present in our alcohol. I know that carbon filtering is used in both the spirits and wine industries. Mash Rookie made a really cool glass tube and did carbon filtering through the tube for his vodka, I never tasted a before or after to do any type of comparisons.

We have often mentioned in posts that the only person we need to satisfy with our hooch is ourself. So if carbon filtering works for you and makes a better drop all I can say is good for you and keep doing what works as long as it's safe!

[Kegg_jam]

I'm curious has anyone compared soaking low wines in sodium bi-carb to carbon filtering low wines.

I've tried the sodium bi-carb method on an all feints run and it turned out really good. Really neutral anyway.

[Bagasso]

I'm curious has anyone compared soaking low wines in sodium bi-carb to carbon filtering low wines.

To me bi-carb seems to work mainly on the heads and takes a good amount of heat (as well as flavor) out up front but I have always felt like it dosen't do anything for tails and I even noticed that a faint hint of tails, that was probably covered up by nice smelling esters, became noticable early in the run.

Carbon seems to be more of a broad spectrum cleaner.

[roberto188]

Holy Crap. I thought because via experimentation I had gotten my answer this thread would have died. I guess not. To be clear, my intention was to build a proof of concept carbon filter and use it to remove the slight sugar aroma I was getting from my sugar wash vodka. That is all. Not to correct bad cuts or a still run too fast or laziness blah blah blah. Now once i built it, for the information of the people in this forum I DID filter several ways and report the results. Take that however you want but again, my only use for the filter was to remove the tiny trace aromas of a sugar wash in my final vodka. I could maybe use a different recipe to achieve less or no "sugar aroma" but to be honest, why? Bags of sugar, water, bread yeast. 1 day later all fermented out. It's about as simple and effective as any wash you could do and it yields excellent vodka. And yes, I have since built a permanent one out of Stainless tubing and scrapped the PVC, so please don't have a panic attack that i'm poisoning myself with PVC.

Everyone needs to stop being a purist about this. Distilling, aging, oaking, flavoring, the whole process is chemistry. Nothing more. A carbon filter is a tool, just as a still and an oak barrel are. Just because someone does something a way that you wouldn't doesn't mean they are lazy, they are cheating etc. Just means they are doing something different. I appreciate everyone's help on this topic, I hope despite riling up some members, it was helpful to someone. Other than myself.

[T-Pee]

To be clear, "proof of concept" wasn't mentioned anywhere in the OP.
That might have helped.

tp

[WalkingWolf]

I appreciate everyone's help on this topic, I hope despite riling up some members, it was helpful to someone. Other than myself.

Welcome to HD roberto188

Believe it, it has helped some folks -- much more than you'll ever know. See, there are several folks out there with this same question(s) but wouldn't ask it knowing the history of carbon filtering on this site. I personally don't, but have produced much that I'm sure would have benefited from a bit of polish. Went down to a distillery and lo-and-behold there in the midst of it all was there big ole carbon filtering unit. So don't hold no ill-will towards the group, just a bit of the history here rising up. I think you summed it all up well. Enjoy yourself, enjoy your spirits, (enjoy your filter ) but most of all be careful and drink responsibly.

[Bagasso]

To be clear, "proof of concept" wasn't mentioned anywhere in the OP.
That might have helped.

Please, the post right before yours, asking that the thread be put out of its misery, and posted almost an hour before said:

And in regards to PVC, i will soon make it out of something else, the PVC was a first go around to get the procedure down and to see if it was even worth the trouble.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

I could maybe use a different recipe to achieve less or no "sugar aroma" but to be honest, why? Bags of sugar, water, bread yeast. 1 day later all fermented out. It's about as simple and effective as any wash you could do and it yields excellent vodka.

Is that your exact recipe?? Do you use any nutrients at all? And only one day to ferment? Are you sure it's all fermented? If there is still sugar in the wash when you distill it that could be why you are getting a sweet sugar note.

[roberto188]

All fermented out. 1lb of bakers yeast, circ pump and aquarium heater keeps or warm and aerated. Thing flies. Hydrometer reading says all dry in 24 hours.

[corene1]

All fermented out. 1lb of bakers yeast, circ pump and aquarium heater keeps or warm and aerated. Thing flies. Hydrometer reading says all dry in 24 hours.

I thought yeast had to be in the anaerobic state to produce alcohol and carbon dioxide. The aeration was used to help grow and establish the colony.

EDIT
I just found this. What do you use for nutrients?

Effect of oxygen

Edit:
Fermentation does not require oxygen. If oxygen is present, some species of yeast (e.g., Kluyveromyces lactis or Kluyveromyces lipolytica) will oxidize pyruvate completely to carbon dioxide and water. This process is called cellular respiration. But these species of yeast will produce ethanol only in an anaerobic environment (not cellular respiration).

However, many yeasts such as the commonly used baker's yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae, or fission yeast Schizosaccharomyces pombe, prefer fermentation to respiration. These yeasts will produce ethanol even under aerobic conditions, if they are provided with the right kind of nutrition. During batch fermentation, the rate of ethanol production per milligram of cell protein is maximal for a brief period early in this process and declines progressively as ethanol accumulates in the surrounding broth. Studies demonstrate that the removal of this accumulated ethanol does not immediately restore fermentative activity, and they provide evidence that the decline in metabolic rate is due to physiological changes (including possible ethanol damage) rather than to the presence of ethanol. Several potential causes for the decline in fermentative activity have been investigated. Viability remained at or above 90%, internal pH remained near neutrality, and the specific activities of the glycolytic and alcohologenic enzymes (measured in vitro) remained high throughout batch fermentation. None of these factors appears to be causally related to the fall in fermentative activity during batch fermentation

[Prairiepiss]

Holy Crap. I thought because via experimentation I had gotten my answer this thread would have died. I guess not. To be clear, my intention was to build a proof of concept carbon filter and use it to remove the slight sugar aroma I was getting from my sugar wash vodka. That is all. Not to correct bad cuts or a still run too fast or laziness blah blah blah. Now once i built it, for the information of the people in this forum I DID filter several ways and report the results. Take that however you want but again, my only use for the filter was to remove the tiny trace aromas of a sugar wash in my final vodka. I could maybe use a different recipe to achieve less or no "sugar aroma" but to be honest, why? Bags of sugar, water, bread yeast. 1 day later all fermented out. It's about as simple and effective as any wash you could do and it yields excellent vodka. And yes, I have since built a permanent one out of Stainless tubing and scrapped the PVC, so please don't have a panic attack that i'm poisoning myself with PVC.

Everyone needs to stop being a purist about this. Distilling, aging, oaking, flavoring, the whole process is chemistry. Nothing more. A carbon filter is a tool, just as a still and an oak barrel are. Just because someone does something a way that you wouldn't doesn't mean they are lazy, they are cheating etc. Just means they are doing something different. I appreciate everyone's help on this topic, I hope despite riling up some members, it was helpful to someone. Other than myself.

Really? Sugar water yeast and one day of fermenting yields an excellent vodka? And carbon filtering is still needed?

I wonder why its needed?

Smells very trollish in here.

[Bagasso]

I wonder why its needed?

The OP already explained it.

Smells very trollish in here.

Yes, it does.

[roberto188]

Why would I need yeast nutrient when pitching 1lb of yeast? Keeping aerated allows it to multiply and there are so many yeast, the wash gets fermented well before the yeast would require additional nutrient. I make wine, beer and cider and always use nutrient then, as the yeast counts are tiny comparatively speaking and remain active and ferment for days and weeks, not hours. Also because I'm getting a neutral in this case I'm not trying to get a particular flavor from the fermentation like I would from a rum or whiskey so I just use a ton of cheap yeast.

[Prairiepiss]

I wonder why its needed?

The OP already explained it.

No the op explained why he wants to carbon filter. Not why it was needed. Now that he has posted his methods. We now know why carbon filtering is needed. But he has blinders on and can't see the snake biting him.

I am glad you have found a method to produce something you seem to like. But don't discount what has been said to you already. Experimentation is good. Even when you think your way is the best way. You won't know until you have tried other ways.

Good fermentation practices produce a better alcohol.
And just because it comes off at 95% doesn't mean its a neutral.
Many things can influence flavors. Including over pitching of a cheap yeast. That yeast will add its own flavors. Just by being in the mix. More of it more flavor addition.

But since you have found a method to produce something you think you like. What's the use of trying another method?

Good luck with your endeavors.

[Bagasso]

No the op explained why he wants to carbon filter. Not why it was needed. Now that he has posted his methods. We now know why carbon filtering is needed.

I don't see how you would have gotten that from what he posted. Yeast bomb = hint of sweet aroma?

But he has blinders on and can't see the snake biting him.

I can't help but think that that applies to those giving stock answers.

You won't know until you have tried other ways.

But I have and they didn't work. Now what?

Good fermentation practices produce a better alcohol.
And just because it comes off at 95% doesn't mean its a neutral.
Many things can influence flavors. Including over pitching of a cheap yeast. That yeast will add its own flavors. Just by being in the mix. More of it more flavor addition.

Nothing we didn't already know but if you had bothered to read and understand the OP you would see that wasn't the problem. There really wasn't a problem just a slight matter of tastes.

But since you have found a method to produce something you think you like. What's the use of trying another method?

Good luck with your endeavors.

More assumptions.

[T-Pee]

Bagasso, you enjoy being a contrary pita, don't you?

tp (and his informed assumptions)

[Bagasso]

Bagasso, you enjoy being a contrary pita, don't you?

Just sharing my experience.

Did you notice how Prairiepiss said: "But since you have found a method to produce something you think you like".

That is what this is all about, one person telling another that what they "think they like", isn't good. Without them ever tasting a drop of what that person makes. Now that takes a lot of gall.

I'm starting to think that I am the snob here and maybe, just maybe, if I tried your stuff I might not like it.

I agree with roberto and see this as just chemistry but I understand that to some there's a romantic side to it and they think things should be done the traditional way. Good for them. People don't bust into threads telling them to stop doing things that way, how about extending the same courtesy?

ETA:

tp (and his informed assumptions)

How could you have any information as to what is in my glass?

[shadylane]

All fermented out. 1lb of bakers yeast, circ pump and aquarium heater keeps or warm and aerated. Thing flies. Hydrometer reading says all dry in 24 hours.

Haven't tried this yet. How much sugar did the yeast consume in 24 hours ?

[roberto188]

I used 20 lbs of white sugar, a tiny aquarium pump and 2 aquarium heaters turned all the way up. Did it in a rectangular tupperware container with the lid ajar. started at about 10% and finished dry in i day. Use warm water around 90F when pitching the yeast. Crumble 1lb of moist cake yeast on surface.

[shadylane]

20 pounds of sugar in how many gallons of water?

[roberto188]

How ever many gallons it took to get a 10% potential. I used a hydrometer.

[shadylane]

That's some were around 14 gallons.
I do the same thing, don't measure the water, just add more until the SG is right.
So the protocol your using is,
20 pounds of sugar, 14 gallons of water, 1 pound of yeast and aerated for a 24 hour ferment.
Is this correct ?

[roberto188]

Yes, with two aquarium heaters turned all the way up.

[johnny108]

That sounds like the Nixon/Stone method from the "Making Gin and Vodka" book I bought so many years ago.
I never could get it to work (Under pitching, I think), and ended up using a mini-mash of two-row barley and lots of sugar...
(Always liked a slightly malty flavor to my vodka)

[roberto188]

That sounds like the Nixon/Stone method from the "Making Gin and Vodka" book I bought so many years ago.
I never could get it to work (Under pitching, I think), and ended up using a mini-mash of two-row barley and lots of sugar...
(Always liked a slightly malty flavor to my vodka)

You are absolutely correct johnny, it is that recommended recipe/method. Worked pretty well for me. I have tried a bran mash and experimented with other types of yeasts, but for a neutral, they all seem to come off my 4 foot reflex column the same. The sugar water and baker yeast, to me, was the easiest fastest wash for making a neutral.

[shadylane]

Here's the experiment
2 pounds sugar and 1.4 gallons water fermented at around 90f with 2 oz of bakers yeast, with an aquarium pump blowing bubbles through an air stone.
SG was 1.06 final gravity after 24 hours 1.048

[roberto188]

Shady. Maybe I was unclear. Not an AIR pump. An aquarium circulation pump. The pump is used to keep the water circulating. NOT to add air.

[d9inger]

I'm too new at this to offer any advice but I did run across this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPk_x3_MFKA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Takes care of that PVC issue at least.

http://www.milehidistilling.com/stainle ... lter-unit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

d9

[johnny108]

Roberto188:
You mention that you have tried Bran mash, and different types of yeast. Why didn't you like them? Was it the time, or the flavor?
If you include Bran, can you decrease your yeast costs?
Or is your current method the most cost effective?
(Please note- I am NOT trying to criticize you- I am curious about your experiences, and your goals. You have an interesting system- I want to learn more about it.)

[contrahead]

"So I have built a carbon filter tube out of PVC pipe (Running vodka from my sugar wash through it). In order to properly filter via a carbon tube is to load the tube with carbon and fill the system with water and just before the water level falls to expose the carbon, put the alcohol in. Then follow the alcohol with some water to flush all the alcohol out. My question is, if the carbon filtering is supposed to take place at around 40-50% ABV (this increases the affectiveness), doesn't running water before and after filtration GREATLY reducing the final ABV of ht filtered booze?"
&
"Distilling, aging, oaking, flavoring, the whole process is chemistry. Nothing more. A carbon filter is a tool, just as a still and an oak barrel are."

I'm not sure your question was ever answered. To me, it would seem sensible to rinse dry charcoal with water first, letting the excess drip away before allowing the distilled spirit to run through the moistened charcoal filter.

* The reactions to your initial post are varied and curious. It is my understanding that in common practice, a majority of commercial distillers run their ethanol through charcoal filters. This might be specially true for commercial vodkas, gins, or for schnapps or liqueurs derived from neutral spirits. I find the resistance on this board - to the notion of carbon filtering, puzzling.

* Food grade plastics; PET, PCP, polypropelene (or PP), HDPE (or High Density Poly Ethelene plastic) - are just that. Considered safe to store food or drink in for a limited amount of time. These generally have high temperature limits compared to boiling water. When fermenting we use plastic buckets, petcocks & hoses. Since temperatures are not elevated during charcoal filtering it seems reasonable to expect food grade plastics to act as safe containment vesicles during the expected short period of use.

http://fivegallonideas.com/plastic-types-old/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
http://www.nybrewsupply.com/carbon-snake.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This contraption is to hold my little carbon snake while it is in operation. It has about 7 or 8" of adjustment for different sized bottles at the bottom. I don't have 5 gal buckets of hooch to filter at one time, a quart or two is a more realistic batch for my small operations.
* Activated carbon can be reused several times if it is rinsed out and oven baked occasionally. I've some homemade charcoal that I made from elm. I've crushed this into a powder and rinsed it several times, with the intention of trying it before using an activated charcoal. I am also looking for calcium chloride or zinc chloride to make my own activated charcoals. To me this simply imply s the production of more micro pores within the charcoal dust, thereby enabling it to trap and capture more of the larger molecular compounds (or undesirable flavor components).