Rye bread whiskey

[Hound Dog]

Has anybody stateside run a comparison between the Deutsche Kuche and the Bolletje breads to see the difference?

[Odin]

Bolletje has no preservatives and is real rye bread. So it has the advantages of the Maillard reaction. It has been cooked for 9 to 13 hours at 90 degrees C. Not sure the same holds true for the German variety. Not saying it isn't, but most don't. That's why Bolletje is a very good & safe choice.

Regards, Odin.

[casper the Irish]

In Ireland I cannot get such breads easily. So to make my first batch I am obliged to make my own rye bread.

Is there a shortcut? I mean, cook the flour? Is it better when stale?

I do like to make breads, mostly my family won't eat my efforts anyway so I dare say any rye bread from my oven will be in abundance after a week in the bread bin

[Odin]

Just use rye and Maillardize it. There's an extensive topic on how to do that.

Regards, Odin.

[K2-61]

Looking forward to trying the recipe. Going to run it as a 5 gal run. Any concerns I should be aware of downsizing the recipe?

[K2-61]

Finished first attempt:

3 boxes organic, non preservative rye breads (1500 mg)
14g yeast (red star)
1 multi vit
6 lb sugar
5 gal water

Followed basic instructions. Fermenting for 2 days, and is really bubbling away. Excited to see how it runs in another week. The SG was around 1080.
Ron

[K2-61]

Picture of bread. Found in the UK

[Jimbo]

You sure them packaged breads like that arent full of preservatives? Seems it would mold up into a slab o fuzz in a day if it wasnt

[K2-61]

No, clean, expiration date was August 11

[Odin]

Yeah, when well packed, this bread stays fresh for quite some time. Even without perservatives.

A member of the Dutch HD forum did a chromatografic analysis of my rye bread recipe. Not sure what it says, since outcomes depend heavily on the distillation equipment and approach and I don't know how that went or what he used, but the outcome was:
- No methanol;
- acetaldehyde: 78ppm
- ethanol: 59%
- propanol: 206ppm
- ethylacetaat: 149ppm
- isobutanol: 1191ppm
- 3-methylbutanol: 3332ppm

The relatively high count on isobutanol and 3-methyylbutanol may indicate the run went a bit far into tails?

Let's see if I can post the picture that went with it ... Nope, does not fit ... so here's the link. It's halfway down the page:

http://www.thuisdestilleren.messageboar ... &start=225" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Odin.

[K2-61]

Odin, just finished my run:
SG - 1080
FG 994

Ended up with about 2.5 gal of mash to run as I left the rest in the carbon - started with about 4 gal fermenting.
Let it ferment until dry.
The fore shots were about 130 proof
Heads about 120
Hearts running around 100 to 90
Tails were about 60

Ran it on copper pot still.

I didn't get the spiciest rye flavors, but a hint. It gives it a nice bouquet or nose, spicer taste as the run went deeper. The wife and I already sipping the first glass...


Saving the heads and for an all spirits run later.
Thanks for the recipe.

[Coyote]

We have been enjoying this awesome rye for about a month now.
As those who have made it know, it is great white.
I aged a couple of gallons on used oak, used vanilla bean (1/2) and a stick of used cinnamon.
This had previously aged a couple of passes of sweet feed. Now I am and old Rye fan from
way back and our most recent favorite has been Knob Creek Rye.

My wife sat a glass of Knob Creek next to a glass of the Odin/Coyote Special Reserve.

Other than not tasting the "Bite" I could not have told you which was which.

This was aged 104 days in gallon jars - AWESOME !!

The second batch was bottled this past weekend. . .

Thanks Odin!!

Coyote

[Odin]

You are welcome, my friend. Thanks for the feedback and congrats on your success!

Odin.

[Rastus]

i started this recipe nearly a year ago.

i have just run the 4th generation of it.... unfortunatly my last batch sat from middle of May until last night.

when i was evaluating whether to run it or not the smell had become quite strong in an acetone kind of way.

very unpleasant. but do in part to some other threads i chose to run it.

i am using a flute with 4 plates. and i pulled a full pint of fores and heads. that awful smell was there but slowly faded as the heads passed.
once into the hearts it turned sweet and smooth very smooth.... i continued to pull nearly one full gallon of hearts. which came in at 89% ABV till the last pint that was 85% but with no foul smells present i blended them all together.

I mixed a half pint with water to 40 % and i have to say this last round, in spite of its long wait in the fermenter turned out to be quite nice and more rich than the previous generation... i have a quantity of each and it is a shame that i have depleted my rye bread supply. perhaps some day again I will make this fine drink . next time i will use the more correct bread if i do not make my own following the slow cook method as described by Mr Odin.

[Davel]

I'm fInally getting around to running this recipe.......it's been in the carboy since last May, had some issues with the neighbor getting attention from the authorities and had to lay low for a while.

I'm not certain how it will distill out but I'll post the results regardless.

[Rastus]

I'm fInally getting around to running this recipe.......it's been in the carboy since last May, had some issues with the neighbor getting attention from the authorities and had to lay low for a while.

I'm not certain how it will distill out but I'll post the results regardless.

Dude i had mine sitting since may also it came out great!
as stated above you it smelled funky but when i ran ot through the flute i have the cuts are precise so it passed early in the fore and heads and thereafter it was sweet and nice tasting. it really does benefit from multiple generations.


Good luck

[Davel]

Thanks Rastus!
This run went well and the initial tasting is very promising. I used a 2" column with 6" of stainless packing for this run.

Mine also smelled & tasted a little "sour" out of the carboy, the wife likened it to a good sour dough bread started. I plan to reserve a reasonable amount of backset and get another batch going right away. I'm really looking forward to getting and decent rye flavour. I know the rum I made certainly greatly improved with subsequent runs.

Another thing I'm going to try dry malt extract in conjunction with the sugar & bread to see how what that produces.

[Davel]

I did a second run with about 20% backset & more rye bread along with dry malt extract and sugar.....ferment was fast, furious and the Lot cleared out in about a week.

Just finished airing it for 12 hours and can say that the 1.75 l of hearts I kept are already quite smooth and have a rye good flavour. Now to set it up to age.

Tomorrow I'll get another 23l batch fermenting and stick with the recipe....I'm looking forward to see how this 3 batch advances in flavour.

[Rastus]

way to go ... i am wanting to run another round of generations this summer when i am done with traveling... it'll be good to coast into next winter with a good stock of the Rye... arrrrrgh!

my last batch i put onto oak with a sprig of vanilla bean and after it took the wood flavors well enough i filtered and added 2 tablespoons of real maple syrup to a quart of oaked it has been resting for about 2 months and it has come out amazingly delicious.

[Davel]

Say vanilla & maple that sounds rather drinkable.

The product of the first run is resting now having spent a couple weeks with some oak....when I have tasted it I have blended it with a dribble of medium dark caramel I made. That caramel added a bit of body and smoothed it out.........unfortunately it is a little "oaky" and I'm hoping that will mellow in the coming months.

This second run I did of this recipe has ended up with quite a lot more rye flavour to it and is currently sitting with a medium toasted apple wood stick and a bit of oak.

Waiting for the 3rd run to ferment dry and clear up so I can see how the flavour is shaping up.

[Coyote]

Seems you lads have finally taken a turn on the
"Coyote Trail"
I love long slow ferments, light on the yeast, weeks to months, not days.
I am after a better product - not trying to do what the commercial boys do.

If I want to swill crap, I can just hop on down to the local state store and buy it.

Coyote

[ShineRunner]

Looks like it's been a while since anyone has updated any results on this.. I've read through everything in here a few times and can't find what the recommendation is for oaking? I've got my first batch finishing up and will be stripping soon. Trying to plan out the oaking phase.

Seems like light char/toasted only, or maybe used oak, for a short (maybe 3 months) period is what would be best?

[Odin]

Due to the intense Maillardization, this is pretty good white. Compare it to a (good) Mezcal and Tequila. Mezcal, where cacti are roasted in a pit under stones and earth for 3 days, creates huge amounts of Maillardization and makes it great and intense on its own. If oaked, yes, maybe light is best.

Regards, Odin.

[CFP1982]

Having trouble getting a 55gal batch right. Can someone post a 55gal fermenter recipe? Please?

[still_stirrin]

Having trouble getting a 55gal batch right. Can someone post a 55gal fermenter recipe? Please?

Easy peasy....

From page 1 of this thread:

You need:
- 1.5 kilo's of dark, dense rye bread;
- yeast;
- a 30 liter fermentor;
- 4.25 kilo's of sugar;
- a pan & a fire place;
- water;
- yeast nutrients (not necesairy, but doesn't hurt either).

A 30 liter is almost 7.9 US gallons. You're using a 55 US gallon fermenter. That would give you approximately an 6.9:1 ratio, so make it 7:1 for simplicity sake. So,

You need:
- 10.5 kilo's (23.5 lb.) of dark, dense rye bread;
- yeast;
- a 210 liter (55 US gallon) fermentor;
- 29.75 kilo's (65.6 lb.) of sugar;
- a pan & a fire place (size appropriate);
- water (50 US gallons;
- yeast nutrients (not necesairy, but doesn't hurt either).

There....how's that? Not so hard, was it?
ss

[CFP1982]

Ok, fairly in line with what I've been using. Now how about yeast? I've used 12 packets of 118 yeast, too much? Too little?

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Ok, fairly in line with what I've been using. Now how about yeast? I've used 12 packets of 118 yeast, too much? Too little?

10 packs is fine. I used 3 packs of ec 1118 recently to start up my 55 gallons. It was a little slow to take off, but I knew it would be, because I have researched pitch rates. I could have pitched more, but didn't want to use all my packs. I plan on doing another 55 gallons this weekend, so I was sure to keep a quart of sludge from the bottom.

Way more than 10 packs, and free.

Do some reading on pitch rates and the outcomes. You can create esters by under pitching. Over pitching really isn't an issue normally. But now I'm giving away the ending here...

[Odin]

118 is Champagne yeast, right? I'd personally go for something a bit more estery ...

Regards, Odin.

[CFP1982]

More estry? Hmmm such as? I'm dying to try a new one!

[Odin]

Shocker: bakers yeast.

Odin.