Aging with Walnut sans Oak?

[BoomTown]

Nice thing about having this place is that for the first time, I may be able to indulge my 'creative' side.

My son-in-law's granddad, a carpenter of some reputation, stashed away in the attic of a garage, several hundred board feet of some selected woods. One of which is Walnut. The wood is rough cut (a 1" board is really a 1" board) and there are several pieces that have warped pretty badly. Son-in-law, a T-totaler BTW, has allowed me to have several board feet of this flawed walnut.

Anyone ever tried aging a bourbon alcohol over Walnut? Yeah, I know I'll not be able to call it a bourbon, but it aint a Scotch, or a Canadian either.

I've just set up 2 half gallon jars with walnut in them. I toasted the walnut for awhile, boy did it smell wonderful. Then I charred half of the toasted walnut. I've set up one jar with the toasted walnut, and one with the toasted plus charred walnut. Both are filled to within 1/2" of the brim with 120p, white bourbon. Planning to take them home to mama, maybe for next year's Christmas party?

Any thoughts?

[bearriver]

Any thoughts?

Subed.

[firewater69]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7020064 I've read this somewhere else as well, but have no data to offer at the moment. just something to think about.

[BoomTown]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7020064 I've read this somewhere else as well, but have no data to offer at the moment. just something to think about.

thanks Firewater,

I have read this, and several other studies involving walnut salad bowls and serving plates. The toxic substance discussed seems to be in the sappy portions of the nuts, the green shell around the nuts, and seems to not be particularly detectable in the hardwoods under the sap surface of new-growth under the bark. That's why the fruit of the Walnut tree is harmless. Walnut wood has been used to make serving dishes and the like for centuries, here and in germany and italy, where salads are sometimes dressed with vinegars (acids) and oils (bases).

The question suggested, but not answered is, what happens when the wood is subject to submersion in alcoloids?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Truckinbutch]

Being a woodworker and seeing first hand how my sensitivity to walnut wood dust has grown over the years I'll fight shy of putting it in my likker . I was intrigued with the walnut brew MCH brought to Jedfest . That was great ! Seasoned wood for long term I dunno .

[Scribbler]

Boy I sure hope this thread attracts someone with experience on this topic.

I made 6 kitchen chairs for my wife out of walnut and have a ton of scraps left.

The THOUGHT of toasted walnut mellowing with whisky is... Tantalizing. I am imagining something truly lovely...


However... I KNOW walnut has a complex assortment of 'things' in it. My father in law says he remembers a neighbour.s horse dying in the 50s or 60s because either the feed trough was walnut or maybe walnut sawdust got in the trough? Either way, the cows were 100% fine, but the horse was dead. The neighbour never noticed the horse acting sick or slowly deteriorating... The neighbours all agreed it was the walnut and that it was fast.


But... Just because my unprovable story says walnut is lethal for horses does not mean it's a problem for people.

Like peanuts: instant-death for some, tasty treats for most!!

(Hmmmm. Toasted peanut aging?)

[Truckinbutch]

Scribbler , walnut's toxicity to horses is not unproven . It is a well known fact in the horse community .

[Scribbler]

Yeah... Figures that a story told me by an old farmer might not be 100% reliable...

[Skipper1953]

Yeah... Figures that a story told me by an old farmer might not be 100% reliable...

What?

He said it is not UN proven.

[BoomTown]

Still hoping for a scientific reference relating to the use of walnut for aging wood. The test units I set up have gone dark colored really quickly, and the smell is pretty unusual.

Haven't tasted it yet, want to live at least through Christmas....

[bearriver]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

There is a ton of references in that wiki. Some of it may be of use to you. Looks like Juglone is the chemical responsible for the walnut toxicity in plants, dogs, and horses.

From what I am reading, some things such as certain insects can change the toxin Juglone to a non toxic substance called Anthelmintic. I am also reading that walnut isn't reported to be toxic in humans, but is a common allergen.

Perhaps people are able to digest the Juglone into something less toxic, much like how ethanol is metabolized...

As always, more research is needed.

[bearriver]

Here is data on the redox behaviour of juglone in a %50 ethanol solution. Unfortunately I do not understand any of it, but perhaps someone with a higher pay grade than me can.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 4813001306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[cranky]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone

There is a ton of references in that wiki. Some of it may be of use to you. Looks like Juglone is the chemical responsible for the walnut toxicity in plants, dogs, and horses.

From what I am reading, some things such as certain insects can change the toxin Juglone to a non toxic substance called Anthelmintic. I am also reading that walnut isn't reported to be toxic in humans, but is a common allergen.

Perhaps people are able to digest the Juglone into something less toxic, much like how ethanol is metabolized...

As always, more research is needed.

Interesting article Bear...HMMmmm ... Used as food coloring and may be used to treat liver cancer Maybe BoomTown has managed to make booze that actually CURES Sclerosis of the liver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think more research is definitely needed.

[BoomTown]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone

There is a ton of references in that wiki. Some of it may be of use to you. Looks like Juglone is the chemical responsible for the walnut toxicity in plants, dogs, and horses.

From what I am reading, some things such as certain insects can change the toxin Juglone to a non toxic substance called Anthelmintic. I am also reading that walnut isn't reported to be toxic in humans, but is a common allergen.

Perhaps people are able to digest the Juglone into something less toxic, much like how ethanol is metabolized...

As always, more research is needed.

Interesting article Bear...HMMmmm ... Used as food coloring and may be used to treat liver cancer Maybe BoomTown has managed to make booze that actually CURES Sclerosis of the liver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think more research is definitely needed.

this is encouraging. But this stuff smells a lot like cloves right now, not one of my favorite herbs. Hope is still alive. Thanks for the posting Bear and Cranky. Frankly you guys have more time for looking for this than I do right now, and it's very helpful to have the 'deep bench' of expertise and knowledge that comes in this forum.

[bearriver]

Glad I can help Boom. I'll continue to poke around where I can.

My thoughts on the walnut is that it might end up being one of those additions that should be made in small quantities. Just judging by your description of the color and nose, my guess is that a little goes a long way. Time will tell.

Good luck with the project.

[BoomTown]

Glad I can help Boom. I'll continue to poke around where I can.

My thoughts on the walnut is that it might end up being one of those additions that should be made in small quantities. Just judging by your description of the color and nose, my guess is that a little goes a long way. Time will tell.

Good luck with the project.

I'm thinking you're right. One wrinkle here (in PA) is that at a tasting at the distillery, we can sell a taste of any of our offereing to a single customer. A way to expand that offering is to have several different products available. I'm thinking our Walnut whiskey might be an offering, special order, not avialable to the general public.

Boom

[cranky]

I know it's probably expensive but since you are venturing into uncharted territory, could you have a lab test a sample to make sure it has acceptable levels of whatever the walnut wood might be adding? Just to know for sure.

[bearriver]

I know it's probably expensive but since you are venturing into uncharted territory, could you have a lab test a sample to make sure it has acceptable levels of whatever the walnut wood might be adding? Just to know for sure.

That's the interesting part. I can't find one shred of data that indicates what the hazardous levels of juglone even are. I'm still looking however...

[cranky]

Another thing I thought of is to maybe contact a university or something. I did find this from Ohio State University
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
"Walnut leaves can be composted because the toxin breaks down when exposed to air, water and bacteria. The toxic effect can be degraded in two to four weeks."

To me that indicates that as the wood is aged the toxin should dissipate or maybe what soaks in it could be aerated to break down the toxin.
I love black walnuts. I actually had a custom butcher block made out of black walnut for my house in Michigan, wish I had brought that with me when I moved and like Bear said, I'm thinking it could be a nice addition to a spirit in the right amount.

[bearriver]

In a study published in Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology on Nov. 15, 2005, authors Michelle T. Paulsen and Mats Ljungman reported that juglone negatively affects human fibroblasts, specialized cells that reside in connective tissue that produce collagen proteins. Specifically, the researchers found that juglone drastically decreased available levels of a protein referred to as p53. This event damaged the DNA material in these cells and triggered apoptosis, or cell death.

From here: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14574 ... e-effects/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This is the only thing I have found that is suggesting a negative impact on human health.

[BoomTown]

In a study published in Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology on Nov. 15, 2005, authors Michelle T. Paulsen and Mats Ljungman reported that juglone negatively affects human fibroblasts, specialized cells that reside in connective tissue that produce collagen proteins. Specifically, the researchers found that juglone drastically decreased available levels of a protein referred to as p53. This event damaged the DNA material in these cells and triggered apoptosis, or cell death.

From here: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14574 ... e-effects/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This is the only thing I have found that is suggesting a negative impact on human health.

Thanks Bear. Very interesting read.

[bearriver]

Here is some more info.. This guy made walnut liquor, and he posted some good references regarding Juglone.

http://blog.khymos.org/2009/05/13/nocin ... ur-part-i/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow