Hello All!!!
my setup has been down for a while and i am about to start it back up... I am wanting to know if my old condenser will work. I have a 72inch piece of 3/8" csst that handle the 2400w i threw at it wonderfully (no surprise ) but now i am upgrading the size and well pretty much everything...
new setup will be a reflux nixon design... 2"x33" column with a 15" head. running 5kw to distill. (rough guestimation as the new heat will be propane)
I want to know if the condesner will be able to handle 7kw of power? (better to oversize) using a 330g water tote and a 1/2 hp sump pump to circulate. ( approx. 70gpm)
thoughts?
Old Copper Road Distillery
Ducktown, TN 37326
DSP- Pending
You've asked an engineering question, but there isn't enough info in your post to answer, or even evaluate the question.
1. your product condenser (currently) is a 6 foot length of 3/8" csst...is that a Liebig, or a worm condenser? Can you provide more info on the design/size?
2. your new setup uses a propane burner which you say will put out 5kW of heat. That's only 17,061 BTU/h. Is that true? Most fish fryer burners are rated at 40 to 50 thousand BTU/h, which is 3 to 4 times your estimate. Sure, you can throttle the burner back to run, if that's what you're planning. It's not clear what your actual condenser needs are from your post. Can you clarify please?
3. you use a water cube as a thermal heat sink (330 gallon you've quoted). Bear in mind that the water temperature will rise as you run and as it does, the efficiency of your heat transfer in the product condenser (and reflux condenser) will fall off. With 330 gallons to sink into, I'd suppose you'll be OK, but you didn't state anything about your boiler and the size of your wash/mash you're running. How big are they? How long do you anticipate inputting 5-7kW heat?
If you can provide more info on your system and desired operation, it would be helpful to answer your primary question, "will it work?"
ss
And as a point of guidance, the boka LM still head design is easier to build and operate than the Nixon-Stone, which is somewhat outdated. However, there are many operators here who still use the N/S. I must admit, the Nixon-Stone has a "classic" look to it.
Another LM head to look at is Rad's concentric design. It's very easy to build and runs like the boka. Have a look at Rad's build thread.
Also, check out Dad300's CCVM, a condenser controlled VM head. Very easy to build with great control of the reflux ratio.
ss
I'm interested in this question, I have been working with condenser sizing and seeing what I can knock down. I'm not an engineer though. Can you give more detail on your current reflux condenser?
Dad300 I ran a test the other night, I took your CSST condenser as you show it here, not coiled, more like twisted so it would fit in my 2" bok. And it did not knock down all the (water) vapors so I was seeing fogging on glass I held up. And this was probably 10" vertical inches or more inside the head. I replaced it with my dual coil 1/4" copper condenser 7"h which then did knock the vapors down. Believe me I wanted the CSST to work better. But it did not seem to. Which is why I was interested in this question. Maybe I need a taller head.
Was there anything to stop vapor from passing the CSST without touching it? ala a wad of SS scrubbie. It may have been possible for vapor to get around the coil without touching it.
I always put a wad of scrubbie on top, just as a precaution. I realize the twisted version doesn't fill all the airspace.
No I did not have scrubbie material in there, I was trying to do without it. I currently use some scrubbie even w/my double coil but I was chasing some smearing and wondering if that was the cause. So no it was not there. And I cannot quite get the 5/8" CSST into the 2" if I coil it like your standard approach. So I guess you are right, the vapor was just shooting around it.
you are correct in the missing info. i have a 1.5ft liebig for the product conser... I have the 72" 3/8 csst for the reflux condenser. single coil inside a 2"x15" head. i will be running less than 1/1 ratio for reflux as the 33" column will provide all the reflux i require. the 330 gallon heat sink is the resevior tank. 1/2 hp sump pump. and yes you are correct in the btu/watt. there will be 2 burners under this each using the residential propane tank for the fuel source. one will put out about 100k in btu. the other only 18k btu. (approx 5200w i think) but i want it to handle 7kw for safety reasons. the boiler size is pushing the limits at 25/26 gallon complete charge. (its actually an approx. 32 gallon tank to prevent puking.) my plan is to run this wide open until heat up then cut the big burner off comploetely for the remainder of the run. putting 5200w to the head for condensing. I hope that is sufficient still stirrin... please let me know if more info is required!
Old Copper Road Distillery
Ducktown, TN 37326
DSP- Pending
humbledore wrote:No I did not have scrubbie material in there, I was trying to do without it. I currently use some scrubbie even w/my double coil but I was chasing some smearing and wondering if that was the cause. So no it was not there. And I cannot quite get the 5/8" CSST into the 2" if I coil it like your standard approach. So I guess you are right, the vapor was just shooting around it.
humbledore,
i used 3/8 because it would fit (snuggly) into my 1.5" column. I am upgrading to a 2 inch soon! my advice get a 3/8" csst line. it will fit smoothly. and also my coil is just that a coil... run a length and curl the rest around it. has worked great even without a scrubbie! about 13" fully curled. i will try to post pictures when i get it going but it will be a few months im afraid.
Old Copper Road Distillery
Ducktown, TN 37326
DSP- Pending
@fqu8847, I am no engineer by far but I can say I get great results from a 1/2" csst coil on a 3" setup. Since it has a lot of open space I wrapped a bit of mesh in there, no fuss.
One thing I noticed in your post was the sump pump. Most are not rated for continuous duty and have a thermal cut off switch built into them. I tried on as my first attempt because I had one already and found it would turn off during the run. Not good. In the end you don't need much power at all. Just the proper head lift rating to get water to the top of the condenser. I followed advice and got an inexpensive pond pump from the hardware store. It has a magnetic drive so when you choke back the flow it does not affect it. Works great.
Update to this and although I still have quite a bit to do, I have upgraded the column! Modified the 11g boiler to accept it, and will post some pics the next run I make!!! I am still planning on upgrading the boiler, but not in the near future I'm afraid...
Old Copper Road Distillery
Ducktown, TN 37326
DSP- Pending
) but now i am upgrading the size and well pretty much everything...
) 60" csst as the reflux condenser on my still. Knocked down everything I could throw at it (5500 w internal element)