FLUTE TALK

[Ben Stillin]

Let me say what I hope to get out of it,

once I get my power dialed in and the coolant water at a stable temp, I want a single valve and 3 positions, heads, hearts and tails. I realize this is only good for more or less the same wash over and over again, but I think with time I may be able to attach a computer controlled ball valve and have the computer maintain the heads, hearts and tails run of say 5 or 6 different washes.

Far off I know but just being able to stick a piece of card board behind the handle and mark the best position for my drink will be valuable all by itself.

[bgrizzle]

I would give up that idea. Its not like you can just have 3 positions and have a computer run your still. For the most part you dont make a whole lot of changes during a run, but it is sometimes neccessary to make very small subtle changes. i.e. as you near the tails... allow to reflux at 100% to compress the tails a little more...


just my opinion of course...

[Ben Stillin]

Either way, adjusting 1 is better than 3,,
It seems like having alternating flow loops keeps water from being circulated unnecessarily through the graham picking up heat while waiting to be sent through the dephleg. This way each condenser has a source of the same temperature stable water at all times

[kenfyoozed]

Since we are on page 66 I may have read and forgot but have their instructions on how much heads to pull off? I know foreshots can be determined but indont remember seeing anything about heads other than somethings about a determined amount.

OD gave great instructions to Gretschem on how to run. Thanks OD. But what about the heads?

[olddog]

This too has had me scratching my head. OD can your possibly supply us with a detailed photo and an explanation. 2 valve vs. new 3 valve would be nice to see

With a 2 valve system, when the flow is reduced to the dephlegmater, it is neccessary to open up the return valve for the graham condenser to relieve the pressure to the pump. With a single 3 way vale this is done automatically, with the design of the valve.
Here are some pictures to explain the 3 way valve operation.

Rear view of the valve, showing the plumbing to the dephlegmater and the return from the Graham condenser

Front view with the lever to the left, all cooling is going through the Graham condenser diverted to the dephlegmater

In this position some coolant is directed to the Graham condenser return

In the central position coolant is equally distributed to both the Graham condenser and the dephlegmater

In this position coolant flow to the dephlegmater is decreased and the majority of coolant is going through the Graham condenser

This shows the feed to the dephlegmater totally closed with all coolant going to the Graham condenser, this position is for pot still mode for collecting tails

The positions shown are not fixed positions, gradual increase or decrease are possible, giving total control with one valve.


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

I would give up that idea. Its not like you can just have 3 positions and have a computer run your still. For the most part you dont make a whole lot of changes during a run, but it is sometimes neccessary to make very small subtle changes. i.e. as you near the tails... allow to reflux at 100% to compress the tails a little more...


just my opinion of course...

I agree with you bgriz..
KS

[Ben Stillin]

It is certainly probable that automation would be completely fail prone, but this does take one valve out of the equation. It is possible I will have to make minor changes throughout the run but with a fixed mash this could be easily done with a large table in a micro-controller. These things aren't much different than commercial stills and they are thoroughly automated. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I have lots of cheap 12 bit temp sensors, and a truckload of microcontrollers. The open/hard/soft/ware community got megasquirt working on every conceivable engine on the planet with 15 different variables changing by the 1000th/sec. I'm pretty sure if I cant get a top quality run out of it I can at least get a good run out of it.

The potential for success is poor but the reward for success is great.


Thanks for the explanation OD!

[Prairiepiss]

Ok OD. Looking at that good description with pics. I am thinking that the valve is what I'm finding they call a T style 3 way valve? And not the L style 3 way valve. I had been looking at them but everyone here were just calling them 3 way valves. So I was unsure which one you guys were referring to. Unless I missed a post somewhere?

[Prairiepiss]

I did a little paint diagram of how I interpreted how your 3 way valve is plumbed? When I look at your pics it looks kinda like all three of the hose connections are connected together with the vertical running pipe. I know this cant be as it wouldn't work. I work better off of diagrams or having the thing right in front of me. So I figured there were more out there that this mite help. Let me know If it is correct or incorrect? I didn't label things (sorry) but everyone should get the jest of it? I Hope!!!! Dephlagmater on the left and Condenser on the right. The lever of the valve would be connected to the T in the middle. The green leg of the T shows the position of the lever to be straight up. This is what I gathered from your pics???

[olddog]

When I look at your pics it looks kinda like all three of the hose connections are connected together with the vertical running pipe

The vertical pipe connecting all three pipes is just a stabiliser it does not connect the water at all. Your drawing is exactly how I have done.


OD

[Prairiepiss]

The vertical pipe connecting all three pipes is just a stabiliser it does not connect the water at all. Your drawing is exactly how I have done.
OD

I figured as much on the stabilizer. And good I hope it helps others.

[valkyrie99]

Me and my bright ideas. I decided I didn't like all the joints at the top so I attempted a different technique, I machine the bottom adapter to fit inside the column pipe, which ment I had to solder it 5 inches from the end of the pipe. Then solder the top reducer on. This did result in the look I was looking for..............BUT, the bottom joint leaks. Now to fix it I will have to make the repair 20 inches from the other end. Any ideas from the more experienced people, or even the no experience people?

Thanks. Valk

[exon]

I think OD's newest valve application is an excellent idea.
It cuts the parts count and allows the operator to focus on a single control.
IMO, possibly the best way, (in most circumstances), to explain operation, would be to direct people to their household kitchen sink.
Most of us now have a single lever control there, and they are generally less expensive than separate controls, and more effective.
We can easily adjust both the flow, and temperature, with that single lever... without reading the instructions!
Operation on a still, would be in reverse.
exon

Edit: Actually, the valve could be placed upon either the inlet, or outlet, and be equally effective.
Edit more: Replacement parts are available at your nearest hardware store...

[prdbrissy]

I am going to incorporate the single 3 way valve into my Flute build. The explanation and drawing above convinced me it is a good idea. I will think about adding a needle valve to the inlet of the 3 way valve to set the maximum flow and then use the 3 way to bring the flow down from the preset maximum and for direction.
Thanks OD for yet another good idea to move Flute design forward.
Regards.

[condensificator]

...so, this 3-way valve must be a "T-port" or is there a different sort that you are using? i think i'ma gonna have to follow you on this move also OD.

[prdbrissy]

Here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p6873773



OD

OD how do I find and post a link

Regards

[olddog]

OD how do I find and post a link

To what are you referring to


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

Me and my bright ideas. I decided I didn't like all the joints at the top so I attempted a different technique, I machine the bottom adapter to fit inside the column pipe, which ment I had to solder it 5 inches from the end of the pipe. Then solder the top reducer on. This did result in the look I was looking for..............BUT, the bottom joint leaks. Now to fix it I will have to make the repair 20 inches from the other end. Any ideas from the more experienced people, or even the no experience people?

Thanks. Valk

If you can get some good flux on your joint you could cut a piece of solder that just fits the inside of your column and slide it down to your joint. Then take your torch and heat it from the outside until it melts the solder.. I have done some joints like that and it works pretty good..
Good Luck
KS

[valkyrie99]

Thanks for the reply I got everything ready I just need someone with ARM small enough to reach in and sand and put flux on.

Thanks. Valk

[Austin Nichols]

I'm just wondering what sized pipe everyone is using for their cooling lines? I have a stack of 3/8 and was planning on using that but from what I can see most are using 1/2"

Cheers.

[Ben Stillin]

All mine are 3/4".

[prdbrissy]

I'm just wondering what sized pipe everyone is using for their cooling lines? I have a stack of 3/8 and was planning on using that but from what I can see most are using 1/2"

Cheers.

If you have the correct sized efficient condensers you will need about 500ml/min of water for each 1000w of power. If your condensers are too small you will need more.
A 1/2" garden hose will supply about 20lt/min with normal house tap pressure.

Hope this helps..

Regards

[Ben Stillin]

Ya, mine are way overkill. I should have explained I went with 3/4" L for durability. Probably overkill as well.

[Austin Nichols]

I'm just wondering what sized pipe everyone is using for their cooling lines? I have a stack of 3/8 and was planning on using that but from what I can see most are using 1/2"

Cheers.

If you have the correct sized efficient condensers you will need about 500ml/min of water for each 1000w of power. If your condensers are too small you will need more.
A 1/2" garden hose will supply about 20lt/min with normal house tap pressure.

Hope this helps..

Regards

LOL yes I knew all that, perhaps I didnt word my post correctly

I know 1/2" fittings are a lot cheaper than 3/8 from the ones I could find in 3/8 here in hicksville, also the 3/8 ball valves are harder to get here but I got some really flash 3/8 needle valves I could use anyway.

Also the little brass nipples you buy from the hardware for garden hose fittings are a perfect fit for 3/8, the 3/8 tube fits snug inside them. They are the small brass fittings that screw into a sprinkler and are about $3 ea.

I guess I just wanted to know what people are using and why

[olddog]

I just use 1/2"for cooling lines, easy to get with any fittings from Bunnings


OD

[Austin Nichols]

How so Austin? Were you hoping for a bit more abv?

Yes, I think it will improve a little once I get used to running it.

I've got another wash to run today through it, I'll try running it with less heat to see what happens.

Cheers.

[Austin Nichols]

Actually after doing todays spirit run with "thingo" I'm really impressed, it held it's temp at 81 to 82c for 4 hours and I got 21 x 700ml bottles @ around 82% ABV from a low wines charge of 50 liters @ 42%

Started collecting tails about an hour ago @ 55% ABV and its really gone quick down to 40%

I'll turn it off shortly and figure out the exact amounts and %'s but so far from the samples I've taken it's looking to be an enormous hearts cut, I'll leave it to air for 48hrs before I make my mind up though.

I think I'm really happy with this thingo, and with a couple of tweaks could get just what I want from it.

Reckon half my problem is that my cooling supply tank is at 28c, if I can figure out a way to lower that temp a few degrees this thingo should be able to hold a steady temp at 78c no worries, so I'll probably run my cooling line through a bucket of iced water and see if that makes a difference.

The shotgun condenser is futzing awesome tho.

Cheers.

Edit: it was a run of my version of UJSM low wines with corn, barley & wheat..... the flavor is fantastic!

[olddog]

Started collecting tails about an hour ago @ 55% ABV and its really gone quick down to 40%

Sounds like its compressing tails just like a Flute, congrats an a great run.


OD

[Austin Nichols]

Yeh the tails part of the run was real fast, shut down 20 minutes ago at 20% ABV.

Is it ok to drink some now? ........... LOL

Ooops too late

[rise n shine]

Howdy everyone, I am looking at building a 6" flute in stainless (similar in design to Kentucky shiners), and am looking for any thoughts and opinions for the build. The reason for stainless is that I have good access to materials, and also the tooling required to work with it (mig,tig,plasma cutter,lathe, etc..). So far, the direction I was thinking was a modular build with a 4 plates on the bottom, and a 6 plate removable section (for neutrals) between that and the dephlagmater. So, with this in mind, can anyone see any draw-backs to this type of set up?

any and all comments and opinions are welcome and appriciated. thanks in advance, you guys are awsome!!!

If the set-up would work, and the build would be a go, some of the questions (and probably many more to come lol) I have been pondering are:

1) Where, how much, and at what stages, would I need to incorporate copper into the build in order to scrub the sulfides out (that is what copper helps with…correct?)
- the only copper that is in the plan so far (that may change with feed back), is
½” copper pipe in the shotguns.

2) I plan on going with perforated plates. Would the spacing between the plates have to be greater than 4” due to the larger diameter flute, and if so, suggested spacing?


3) what size of down comer’s and weir heights would be recommended?
- was thinking ¾” downcomer and 1” cap for the weir

4) what size should the dephlagmater/condencer be to control the rig?
- I started on a shotgun condenser just to test my skills working with stainless.
(if it is too large/small etc. that can be changed, or rebuilt with out any
issues, as I have not silver soldered the tubes, or welded in the plates). The tubes (20) are ½” dia. By 1’ long.
here are some pic's (hopfully ) of the shot gun:

sizing the plate on the lathe