FLUTE TALK

[cnycoldsnake]

4 Inch Stainless Steel Flute Build

Ok I working on getting all the parts I need now. I’ve got the 15.5 gal keg. 4 inch OD by 30 inches Stainless steel pipe and some 2 inch tri clamp elbow to go from the top of the column to the shot gun Condenser.

Still Plan
4; 2 inch tri clamp sight glasses
4 inch tri clamp fitting on the keg to hold down the column
2 thermoters One on the keg one on the column
5500w Elc heating element
Clamp on Dephlegmator 6 inch
10 inch Shotgun condenser in a 4 inch shell
4 copper plates
Clamp on Gin Basket
I plan on getting the rest of the parts this weekend so let me know what you think

[Prairiepiss]

I would love to see a stainless version. I do think if I were to build it I would use copper tubes in the shotguns for the vapor paths. The copper would transfer heat better and give you some more copper in the vapor path. I don't know how much of a difference it would make. It would make it a little more difficult. But I would still try it. And by no means am I an expert. I'm sure they will be along shortly.

Make sure to get us some good pics.

[Mr.Spooky]

are the plates gonna be removeable???? if not, how are you gonna fix the copper plates to the SS column? any sight glasses???
i cant wait to see the gin basket,,,, do you have it figured out yet??? is this enough questions ????
good luck! cant wait to see the build!
spooky

[cnycoldsnake]

I dont know about the plates yet or the gin basket I am going with 4 sight glases I know I have 78 inches of SS pipe to play with

[Mr.Spooky]

sounds kinda like what im doing right now. cant wait to see the SS model!
spooky

[cnycoldsnake]

Mr.Spooky

How tight fitting do the plates need to be to the inside Of the pipe walls. I think i found away to make a gin basket. I going to do the Flute LIKE the one Condensifcator did With His BUBBLIFER


TIME FOR SOMETHING NEW STAINLESS PORN

[Mr.Spooky]

Mr.Spooky

How tight fitting do the plates need to be to the inside Of the pipe walls. I think i found away to make a gin basket. I going to do the Flute LIKE the one Condensifcator did With His BUBBLIFER


TIME FOR SOMETHING NEW STAINLESS PORN

tighter than dicks hat band thats why i decided to do a "fixed plate" verson on my current flute. on my first one,and this one, all i have to cut plates are a pair of sheetmetal snips(wiss) and a bench grinder. my disks looked perfect by what i could see with my eyes, but after sliding them into the column, there was alot of gaps,,,thus, not letting my column run to the full potential.
though i do think that there has been a few here that has used a laithe to turn their platse and had success.......damnit,,, who they were slips my mind.. any how,, i think that it can be done with the right tools and patients.
spooky

[cnycoldsnake]

Well I think Im going to do fixed plate all the parts should be in by next week or so Then we name it and build it Im thinking The yuppie Flute What do you think

[Mr.Spooky]

to me,,,,, fixed plates would be the safest bet...
spooky

[W.S.C.beachman]

I plan on turning my plates with the lathe. Just running in to snags with getting the material I want. My plan is to make all internals press fit for the soldering then a very nice snug slip fit for sliding in to the 2" column. Things change though and will see how it goes. Tighter the better I always say!!!!

[Mashy]

Hey fellas,

I'm new to the flute talk and haven't built more than a pot still and a parrot with my own hands. However, I am now the proud owner of the original Flute thanks to OD. I tried to post pics but it was telling me the tiny 17.8 kb viersion was too large so I gave up. Most of you have her before but she's got a new home in WA now.

OD wrapped this thing like a pro and had absolutely no damage on delivery. Got here from OZ in 4 days via DHL!

Ran my first run of 12 +/- gallons of bastardized UJSM (4.4 cracked corn and 2.6 flaked rye + 1 qt DME (Smiley single malt recipe with DME) feints and 1/2 gallon all grain feints). Screwed myself for awhile trying figure out the dephlag but ended up with a little over a half gallon of 87% and the taste was much better than out of my pot with thumper. Full clean flavor.

Once I got her dialed in she was pissing nicely. About a quart every 15 to 20 minutes. I burnt the hell out of her but OD turned me on to steel wool and hairspray for a temp lacquer. She still looks good as new after the first run and all the fondling. It's very nice to have a still look so good all the time if your anal retentive like myself.

Thanks for answering my questions, getting on Skype and making such a wonderful still OD. Me and my liver appreciate it!

[mash rookie]

I have ran my new Sexy Girl flute a couple of times now. It does a great job. Really fast and great flavor on my UJSSM.
I have a couple of questions. One about Whiskey. One about neutral.

I have read OD talking about compressing heads? Does this mean he is actually ending up with less heads and more hearts?

I collect in 750 ml bottles. Here is my typical UJSSM run results.

1 heads
2 hearts with some heads smear
3 hearts
4 hearts
5 tails
6 deep tails to 80 p

My last run I used 2,3-4 in my blend and added tails to taste before oaking. Pretty typical.
Although it had some bite when placed on oak, within the first week it has smoothed out.
Q. Can I compress and have less heads in bottle two?

Q -2. I have knocked up some Birdwatchers. With the flute putting out 90 + ABV will I have to run it twice to get neutral. Wont it be pretty clean at 90%. The corn flavor comes through that high. How will this baby do on Neutral?
Thanks
MR
p.s. I cant wait to try rum with her...

[Mashy]

I know the flute compresses tails really well but not so sure about the heads part.

OD told me he likes to let the plates/column stack for about 45 minutes, take off the heads and then re-stacks the column for another 30 to 45 minutes before taking hearts and tails. After the hearts are done your output will be go from a stream to stream and then some drips, which means you are into the tails. Tails are really compressed from all the stacking so you shouldn't get much more than 1/2 quart or so.

For 10-12 gallons of UJSM:
I collect about 3/4 to 1 qt heads
2 qt pure hearts
1qt mostly hearts with a little tail action
1/2 qt or so of tails depending on what ABV I feel like stopping at

I have found for my taste I like to stack the first 45 minutes or so after all plates are going and then let her rip for the entire run. Re-stacking after heads was good as well but I like a little stronger grain flavor. To each his own I guess.

Note: OD's original flute that I bought has 5 plates, not 4.

For a neutral I would stack, take heads, stack take the rest and then run it through a second time the same way. Your getting high ABV but with the flute that doesn't mean that the flavor is neutral (which is the beauty of the flute IMO) like it would be with a standard reflux column.

Some other here might have other tricks as well. I have only run about 6 washes through my flute so I'm still a rookie myself.

Good luck!

[lordmango]

I'm pretty new to the whole flute-design, but I have 2 questions:

1: A Flute (from what I've read and can see on pictures) is run pretty much like a Cooling Management?

2: The product you get from a Flute has about the same purity as a good VM still, but also keeps lots of the flavours just like a potstill?

Thanks for answering my questions.


Best Regards, LordMango.

[wildrover]

I'm pretty new to the whole flute-design, but I have 2 questions:

1: A Flute (from what I've read and can see on pictures) is run pretty much like a Cooling Management?

2: The product you get from a Flute has about the same purity as a good VM still, but also keeps lots of the flavours just like a potstill?

Thanks for answering my questions.


Best Regards, LordMango.

Hey LordMango. It's pretty much a cooling management, except the plates allow separation of the alcohols so that if you run with full flow to the dephlag at the top of the column, alcohol will seperate out of the boiler such that higher order alcohols (heads) on the top few plates, and lower order ones on the way down. That way you get better "Compression" of the same types of alcohols together. It's hard to measure, and I don't own a flute, but for question #2 it's supposed to be purity of VM with pot still speeds. Supposedly supposed to carry more flavors, but I'm not sure how you measure that, or what that is saying about the resulting distillate exactly.

[lordmango]

From what I've read, people use USJM or something like that to get a "whiskey"-like product.
Since the flute has plates where the different types of alcohol collect, the separation is very good and it is able to give a clean product (without alot of heads/tails etc.) with the desired taste.

Or at least that's what I've understood.

The thing is that I'm interested in making apple "vodka" and alot of other tastes, and the potstill IMO doesn't separate heads/body/tails good enough.
I've tried making neutral spirits and adding fresh apple-juice, but the result wasn't really what I was looking for. Might be because I couldn't get the perfect spirits/juice ratio.

When I last tried making apple vodka with the potstill I got, I had one drink and wasn't able to go to work the day after because of a hangover, just because of one drink.
I also used the middle part of the body, which I thought would have the least heads/tails in it.

Since the Flute apparently has the same output as a decent potstill with somewhere around the same amount of flavor, but at the same time has a much better separation than a potstill, I've become pretty interested in building a flute for making different types of vodka out of home-made wine.

[LWTCS]

I've become pretty interested in building a flute for making different types of vodka out of home-made wine.

I like your train of thought.
So often we read Dunder's posts about vodka that is not really neutral as such ........A strip run (with the flute) then dilute to 40% with your forthcoming wash would be where I would start with your project.......

Cheers

[The Baker]

I'm pretty new to the whole flute-design, but I have 2 questions:

1: A Flute (from what I've read and can see on pictures) is run pretty much like a Cooling Management?

2: The product you get from a Flute has about the same purity as a good VM still, but also keeps lots of the flavours just like a potstill?

Thanks for answering my questions.


Best Regards, LordMango.

Hey LordMango. It's pretty much a cooling management, except the plates allow separation of the alcohols so that if you run with full flow to the dephlag at the top of the column, alcohol will seperate out of the boiler such that higher order alcohols (heads) on the top few plates, and lower order ones on the way down. That way you get better "Compression" of the same types of alcohols together. It's hard to measure, and I don't own a flute, but for question #2 it's supposed to be purity of VM with pot still speeds. Supposedly supposed to carry more flavors, but I'm not sure how you measure that, or what that is saying about the resulting distillate exactly.

As you can see I have only the most basic understanding of this stuff, but that does not mean that I am wrong.
Often I am, and I can live with that, but........

Has anyone tried putting in some little taps so that you can take off product (with different abv) at the different plates, especially the few higher ones?
(The very top one then might be heads so you can keep them separate.)
Might be worth taking it off (more efficient) at the lowest one as well, or even at the bottom of the column, to get rid of what might be spent mash, instead of allowing it to go back to the boiler.

I have a feeling that this is better done in the huge commercial stills, but what the heck; it's only recently that innovators started making hobby size plate stills!
(I think this taking off of product at different levels would be called true fractional distillation).

It would be very little effort and expense to set this up to see if it would work.

PS I also have a feeling that this tap idea (no it's not original!) might work better with bubbler plates than perforated ones.

[olddog]

The point in using a dephlegmater on a plated still is to be able to regulate the temperature to around 78C degrees of the distillation on the top plate. Once heads have been taken, this regulation enables you to extract all the ethanol available. This is why the hearts remain at 90+ABV for the entire run and the takeoff will decrease from a stream to drips once taken, after this when the dephlegmater is turned off to take tails, they are so compressed that there will only be 300mm (a cupfull) from a 23-30lt wash. This is how a Flute works.


OD

[mash rookie]

Baker,
Because it is a batch distilling the heads are still coming off first. After that, collecting at different levels and would only be a different ABV.
I have had similar thoughts but would not bother trying with my flute unless I set up a continuous wash feed. Even then it would not be worth the effort unless you had many more plate levels. Old Dog's design has similarities but functions differently batch distilling.

Lord Mango,
I am sorry that I missed your first post or I would have responded sooner.
I think that a flute will work great for flavored vodkas or brandies. They do bring flavor through at a high ABV.
I recently ran some birdwatchers with my flute and learned that it does not make very good neutral as even at high ABV it was not very clean. I am planning on using a different recipe next time in an attempt to make better stuff.

Old Dog is correct about only getting a cup of tails at the end. It is my opinion that the reason there are no tails is that the Flutes drag the tails through with the hearts. This causes the distillate to have a heavy flavor. While that is wonderful with my UJSSM style wash it did not work with Birdwatchers.

Heads cause hang overs. Tails affect flavor for better or worse.

I believe the answer for me is to make a recipe with flavors that I will enjoy in my distillate. I am first going to try All Bran for neutral. A fruit wash for brandy or a sugar head fruit wash just may be the ticket for a flavored vodka.

Flutes are a great tool. I am still learning how to use my flute. Tons of possibilities.
MR

[Barney Fife]

Baker, I had a takeoff port and valve at the upper plate on my "simple slant plate column" and it was very useful for taking the fores and heads, so much so that I really, really miss having it on my 3" bubbler column, and will be adding a "heads" take off soon. With a takeoff, I didn't have to compress the heads or anything like that; I would just play with the power input to keep the temperature at the inlet of the product condenser below 78c, and collect all that came out from the takeoff port. This would take from 5-10 minutes. None of the fores and heads ever made it to the product condenser.

I've not built or run a perforated plate column so I can't comment for those, but my bubbler column yields me the same(give or take) amount of tails as I would have expected when carefully running a pot still.

[sammybear]

So where would be the best place to put a thermometer:

On top of the dephlemator, or right below it? I know you are aiming for ~81c for grabbing hearts, but I'm not sure the best place to measure it would be. It seems I've seen them in different places in several member builds, but I'm not sure which placement is the best. I'd assume on top of the dephlem, as that is the product vapor, but that is just a semi-educated guess.

[olddog]

When I designed Flute Mk 1, I positioned the temp probe just below the dephlegmater, which is the highest point above the top plate. This position will measure the temp of the vapor which is evaporated from the liquid on this plate. I have the probe on Flute Mk11 in the same position for the same reason.


OD

[mash rookie]

When I designed Flute Mk 1, I positioned the temp probe just below the dephlegmater, which is the highest point above the top plate. This position will measure the temp of the vapor which is evaporated from the liquid on this plate. I have the probe on Flute Mk11 in the same position for the same reason.


OD

I put mine above the dephlag to know when I was getting the temp I wanted for take off. It would be interesting to know the temp below the dephlag as well. It might give me information about much temp I am knocking back. Exactly what the dephlag was doing.
I am not sure what I would do with that info. Still learning how to run this baby. I think less input power and less dephlag coolant works a little better for me than running hard. I think I get a little better tasting stuff.

[Horse_Shoe]

Hi all,

Just got my "Flute." I've been running it for about a week and already fried a heating element. I'm running sugar washes. When it fried I was heating up a new wash (23 gallons) at full tilt. It was taking longer than it should. About an hour into it the site glasses were just getting some sprinkles of Alcohol. Then, BBBBBBBBBBHH, a direct short! I checked the controller, the breaker, the extension cord and let it cool overnight. I drained it this morning and removed the element, which was damaged in two places, completely severed and cooked.

I'm replacing the element today and keeping one on hand for future hang ups.

Is this just bad luck? Or, should I not run the device wide open?

Thanks,

Horse_Shoe

[LWTCS]

Is this just bad luck? Or, should I not run the device wide open?

Meter the new one during a run and see what it's drawing.

What is your harness/breaker/element/controller rated for?

[mash rookie]

Just bad luck. As long as they are submersed when energized, They should last for years. If your breaker or wire were under sized for the element load, then they would fail.

[Horse_Shoe]

The cord and breaker are rated for 30 amps. The controller is rated for 25

[LWTCS]

Seems like bad luck then

[Horse_Shoe]

I picked up two 5500 watt elements at Home Depot. They are supposed the be better than the standard grade elements because they're coated with some substance. It states on the package that they will withstand dry firing. I'll fix it up and try it out today and see what happens.