Adjusting pH of your Final Spirit with Sodium Bicarbonate

[mcq_101]

I know there is a lot of discussion of the benefits of dosing your low wines with Sodium Bicarbonate. Does anyone have any experience in introducing a small amount of So Bicarb to your finished/polished neutral spirit to raise the pH level? And can anyone tell me what chemical reactions would subsequently take place?

Matt

[T-Pee]

What would be the point? I would think that the bicarb would just precipitate right back out or make the distillate cloudy.

tp

[mcq_101]

What I have found is that a lot of spirits due to reducing the pH through your mashing and enzyme stages will result in a final product around 6-6.2 . The human pallet is least adverse to tasting pH levels between 7-8.5 . Thus raising the final pH will continue to smooth out your spirit. I have heard of people doing this, but I can't find any info online.

We are prob talking about a very very small amount.

[MDH]

It happens naturally over time in the bottle because the bottle leeches oxides into. What you have heard has some truth to it, but you wouldn't want to use sodium carbonate. It would potentially react with any leftover free acids / esters and make your vodka have a very weird taste.

There are a number of distilleries around the world who filter with limestone, which is mostly calcium, before the final carbon filtering. This might do it.

[HDNB]

back from the dead...

seems a lot of people were soda polishing low wines 6-10 years ago for a neutral ph before final distillation, but i don't see much current discussion.

are you adding bases to lowwines? do you have any hard data on the results?

woodshed- if you read this what does your fancy Ph meter say about the acidity of the final product, and are you happy with the result?

or has this been beat to death and no one does this anymore?

[bearriver]

woodshed- if you read this what does your fancy Ph meter say about the acidity of the final product, and are you happy with the result?

Anything distilled, even distilled water or RO water will destroy or damage the probe on a handheld pH meter. Gotta use drops/strips for that job. The electrode is loaded with ions. Distilled water and RO water will remove all the ions from the electrode. Thats why storage solution is important for maintaining longevity and accuracy of the tool. Note: The only reason I know that crap is beacuse of the leaflet that came with my Bluelab pH and ppm pens.

[der wo]

Probably you know this tread?
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6749
There are a few hard facts.

Here was a current discussion:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... m&start=30
I measured with high quality strips, that low wines with 5g sodium carbonate (not the bicarbonate!) per liter result in pH 11. Thats of course no really useful info, if you want to add sodium to the finished product.

[der wo]

Here a thread from the enemies:
https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/ ... sis-thread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
copy&paste:

Sodium Bicarb - 2.5 grams per liter (approximately 1 tablespoon per 10 liters stripped wash) is sufficient to neutralize acids out of a typical strip and push the pH near the equivalent of a water saturated solution. Starting pH was 4.3 - by 2.5g/l sodium bicarb this was pushed to pH 8.3. Adding any more than this amount did not push the pH any higher.

CONCLUSION - I strongly feel that the 1-2.5g/l amount is more than sufficient to provide for ester reduction in low wines (this is 1 tablespoon per 10 liters to 1 tablespoon per 30 liters). I do not feel that any waiting time, past the point of dissolving the bicarb in low wines, is necessary at all - the reaction was almost nonexistent cold - 9 hours no change - but clearly takes place rapidly during distillation.

[Copper Thumper]

Woah woah woah!


Who says R/O water kills a ph probe?


What ph meter did you use to come to that conclusion?

I have been growing using hydroponics and aeroponics for over ten years and have used cheap ph meters and now have a Hanna meter that's around $100.


Never once had water of any sort damaged any of my meters and using DWC-NFT and ebb and flow I religiously use r/o and always test the water before and after adding nurients and buffers. The only thing that killed the cheaper ones was dropping it entirely into water, that's why the Hanna I have now is waterproof and floats.


The Hanna meter actually RECOMMENDS to store the tip of the probe soaked in distilled water for storage...lol

[dieselduo]

I've had this one for years without a problem http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow®-Automatic-Temperature-Compensation-Measurement/dp/B01AMBMVV2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1452800930&sr=8-3&keywords=ph+meter

[Monkeyman88]

Woah woah woah!


Who says R/O water kills a ph probe?


What ph meter did you use to come to that conclusion?

I have been growing using hydroponics and aeroponics for over ten years and have used cheap ph meters and now have a Hanna meter that's around $100.


Never once had water of any sort damaged any of my meters and using DWC-NFT and ebb and flow I religiously use r/o and always test the water before and after adding nurients and buffers. The only thing that killed the cheaper ones was dropping it entirely into water, that's why the Hanna I have now is waterproof and floats.


The Hanna meter actually RECOMMENDS to store the tip of the probe soaked in distilled water for storage...lol

Yea I've also had a few that recommended being stored in either distiller or r/o water.

[wtfdskin]

Our hand held meters at work we test ro water with. (We use Hach) Store in distilled water, ro water, or storage solution (potassium chloride) for most meters with a glass bulb sensor and electrolyte. Some of the pocket meters without the bulb can be stored dry.

http://www.hach.com/sension-meters-and- ... 5547408094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[HDNB]

so... bicarb or no?

on neutral only?

Or

use it on whiskey too?

seems like the SD/AD guys are using on neutral with success?

i'm making whiskey, i *think* it is tasting a bit acidic, wondering if this would help...i guess i have to buy a fancy Ph rig and find out....

[Copper Thumper]

No...No...and.....no.


Or you can ruin some likker yourself and re-run it?


Give the booze time, nothing will replace it.

[der wo]

I fermented successively five generations of bourbon, five different approaches, for one spirit run. One of them didn't ferment dry (FG about 1.020) so I added some alpha- and glucoamylase and waited. After it was fermented dry (FG 1.000), the mash had a light vinegar smell (I think because I infected it by measuring the FG and adding the amylase). This smell was there after stripping too. So I tried out to give some sodium into one liter of it. There were a few weeks between the stripping and the spirit run, while the smell was reduced from ALL the bottles, not only that with the sodium. So I decided, not to give the bottle with the sodium into the spirit run, because I feared, that it perhaps would start to react while distilling also on the good flavors of the other low wines. But I partially gave the other slightly acidic bottles into the still.

"the reaction was almost nonexistent cold - 9 hours no change - but clearly takes place rapidly during distillation."
That's what I would fear.

For many of my whiskeys, after the aging I think, it would be better, if I had cut less heads out in the spirit run.
Adding sodium would make that worse I am sure.

[FullySilenced]

Bicarb used in neutral of vodka production... never directly into the wash... only in stripped low wines prior to the spirit run...

There is a making vodka thread that goes along with the posted link on the SD forums.

Good reading about bicarb on the Homedistillers original site... good historical information.. found Here: http://homedistiller.org/distill/dtw/salt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Can't see any of this being used in whiskey run or in a final whiskey product... would reduce the flavors and or add a salty taste to the final product ... but that's just my theory

happy stillin,

FS