Amylase and sweetfeed?

[buckfity6]

Is it possible to use alpha amylase and gluco amylase in a sweetfeed mix to the point that you do not need to add sugar?

[still_stirrin]

Sure.

But you've got to mash the grains. And the sweet feed mix includes corn, oats and barley, none of which is malted. So you'll have to go through a proper mashing protocol first geletinizing the corn to make the carbohydrates available as starches for the enzymes. It would really be easier if you mixed your own sweet feed with the individual grains. Then you could run the gelatinization on the corn alone first and mix the grains at your mashing temperature.

It CAN be done...but will take more effort on your part.
ss

[still_stirrin]

And unless you KNOW what you're doing, I would STRONGLY recommend sticking to a Tried & True recipe.
ss

[buckfity6]

I'm not up on exactly what you are telling me to do, but I am researching gelatinization, I really love the flavor and smoothness of sweetfeed whiskey, so would be very happy to achieve this without the use of sugar. Are you saying that I have to malt the corn and grind it up some how?

[still_stirrin]

...Are you saying that I have to malt the corn and grind it up some how?

Well, it sounds like you had better stick to a Tried &True recipe. You don't understand gelatinization of the carbs/starch in the corn to make it available to the enzymes to convert to sugars, so you definitely should stay "between the ditches" and follow a T&T.

You asked if something CAN be done, and it can. But if you don't know what you're doing you'll just make a sticky mess. And you'll ask 10,000 more questions instead of actually reading how to do it. I strongly suggest spending time in the Mashing & Fermentation forum to begin your learning quest.
ss

[pfshine]

If you are using the high temp alpha and the gluco enzymes just follow the directions and it's all gravy. No malts needed.

[buckfity6]

Yes pfshine that exactly what I'm using, I also do a non cook method where I boil my water and then add it to the feed with a 4% backwash, I let this cool then add more hot water up to 30 gallon, on 5he last heat up I wait till my temp is at 155 and add the alpha amylase and sugar then when it reaches 145 I add the gluco amylase. This has worked well, I am old school and only started using a hydrometer and sg and fg in the last few months, it semi possible I lites are endless. Lol. I have looked up gelatinization on here and am not finding much, I'm guessing he means cooking it to get it to release starches, I'm not up on this terminology, sometimes it's like we speak differnt lauguages, lol I do appreciate the advice.

[buckfity6]

Ops, hit the submit button by mistake, I was wondering if it was possible to subtract adding sugar by adding more feed and using the enzymes, so your saying it's possible, what would be a good starting gravity?

[skow69]

All of your questions are answered here. http://homedistiller.org/grain

[pfshine]

SS is talking regular mashing process with gelatinizing the grain. This is the same but a little different. Since I got my enzymes my process has been add a little high temp alpha to the corn and grains with water then start heating. Once it has boiled for a bit (never gets thick) cool it to 190 check pH and add the rest of the HT AA enzymes. Let it cool down to 160 then adjust pH for gluco and add enzymes. And wait till it drops to pitching temps

[Skipper1953]

What you are talking about is all grain mashing. Read everything you can find about all grain mashing with enzymes. Sweet feed is just a mix of un-malted grains. You probably would be better off just buying the grains separately and doing a cereal mash with each of them. Each grain needs a slightly different mashing procedure to properly gelatinize the starches it contains. The enzymes you will need require different temperature ranges to be effective without denaturing them. It really isn't rocket surgery but it is a bit more complex than pouring syrup on waffles.

Do check out the New Distillers Reading Lounge and the Mashing and Fermenting sub-forum. Keep reading and you will eventually come across a thread or maybe even a single post that makes you say, "Oh Shit, now I get it." Then you'll be on your way. Even the Tried and True recipes will make sense to you then. Like so many others keep pointing out, the answers are here already. After reading a while longer, you will have a better idea of what questions to ask of the GOOGLE search engine at the top of the page.

[buckfity6]

Thanks skipper. Thanks for the feeding. Haha

[der wo]

Sweetfeed is often 30% corn, 30% oats, 30% barley and 10% molasses.
Oats and unmalted barley are slimy, what makes the mashing more difficult. Corn mashing is easy, if you give enough time and heat for gelatinization. So I would take mainly corn, when I would do AG for the first time.
If you mash sweetfeed instead of a sugarhead, the milling/cracking of the grains is a new factor, more yield but more difficult lautering.