Emulsifiers and separation

[Shovelhead89]

I'm having issues with my spiced and flavored recipes (apple pie, peach pie). To make them I steep whole spices in neutral at 93% for a few days and strain off. I proof the neutral down and add juice concentrate and inverted simple syrup. For the first couple days they look great but as time goes on a cloud accumulates at the top of the jar and the rest of the liquid clears. It's as if the spices suspended are separating and rising. I'm pretty sure it's the spices because I made a few jars with only neutral (not spiced) and it was and has stayed crystal clear. I tried a bit (3ml) of glycerin because it is used as an emulsifier sometimes but didn't help. The weird thing is some of the peach pie jars didn't separate. Also my espresso jars after a week or so tiny particles sink to the bottom. I'm guessing this is coffee grounds that were too small to strain out before. I could rack off but I'd prefer to have them suspended with an emulsifier if possible because I believe they are a good source of flavour.

I know I could just give these jars a quick shake and it'd take care of this issue but one day I hope to go legal and sell my shine so I can't really just ignore this problem.

[greggn]

Are you doing any filtering within the process ? It's possible that the "cloudiness" is an accumulation of micro-particles of spice that broke down during the steep. Try filtering the batch through multiple coffee filters ... should clean up the drink without affecting taste.

[Shovelhead89]

Are you doing any filtering within the process ? It's possible that the "cloudiness" is an accumulation of micro-particles of spice that broke down during the steep. Try filtering the batch through multiple coffee filters ... should clean up the drink without affecting taste.

Yes I filter the spiced neutral through cheese cloths then coffee filters. The weird thing is the spiced neutral can sit alone and not separate. The liquor with juice, syrup and neutral can sit alone and not separate. But when you combine the spices with the syrup and/or juice, it separates. Something is reacting in a peculiar way.

[Tomb]

I find the same.

I make 1 litre batchs of Apple pie (easy to mix from one carton) and let them sit in a 2 litre jar to clear for a few days in the fridge. I then careful poor off the clear into smaller jars and leave the sediment. The next batch goes on top of the sediment (which is not really sediment) so I do not lose any "product".

Even the finished jars will have a little on the bottom after time but even if this is shaken up the jar still looks clean.

I put this down to some "Apple stuff" falling out of solution when exposed to alcohol (mine ends up being 20%)

T

[Shovelhead89]

Well mine isn't sediments as it actually floats to the top and looks exactly like a white fluffy cloud. And it's not the apple because I made jars with only apple juice neutral and simple syrup and it was crystal clear yellow.

[Shovelhead89]

I let the spices sit in my peach recipe at drinking strength (35%) and it came out crystal clear after sitting for a week. My theory is that at 95% the alcohol is able to breakdown tiny particles of the spice that become suspended and then saturated with alcohol. When this happens they float to the top as fruit does when macerated and it absorbs alcohol.
Solution = macerate my spices as my very last step of making my spiced liquor when it is at drinking strength.

[yakattack]

Fluffy cloud.

Sounds like tails to me there shovel head. The different chemicals can bond and separate out of.the solution and very visible. Got any pictures?

[Shovelhead89]

Fluffy cloud.

Sounds like tails to me there shovel head. The different chemicals can bond and separate out of.the solution and very visible. Got any pictures?

It could be tails if I didn't blend my entire batch. It definitely has to do with the spices. Plus I make stringent cuts. I took some neutral from the same batch, spiced it at 95 and some neutral and spiced it at 35 after mixing with other ingredients. One came out cloudy, the other crystal clear.
Don't have any pictures but literally pictures a greying white cloud inside the top of the jar. Extremely fine particles.

[Mikey-moo]

What spices are you using? It seems to me that steeping the spices at such high abv will extract a large amount of essential oils from them. When you proof it down the oils drop out of solution, maybe picking up some tiny particles from the fruit along the way. The oil coated particles eventually float to the top.

You say the samples that you don't put spices in don't have this issue. Have you tried diluting the product first, then steeping the spices for longer at the lower abv?

[Shovelhead89]

What spices are you using? It seems to me that steeping the spices at such high abv will extract a large amount of essential oils from them. When you proof it down the oils drop out of solution, maybe picking up some tiny particles from the fruit along the way. The oil coated particles eventually float to the top.

You say the samples that you don't put spices in don't have this issue. Have you tried diluting the product first, then steeping the spices for longer at the lower abv?

Very helpful info, and very much appreciated. That could definitely be the issue as I did spice at a lower abv (35) and never had the issue. I actually just started steeping at new batch at 55 yesterday so we will see how that goes. I'm using cinnamon, nutmeg and cloves.

[Mikey-moo]

Possibly the clove oil causing the issue. But let us know how the lower proof steeping goes

[Shovelhead89]

Success! Steeping at 55% is my sweet spot. Best batch ever and a beautiful clear amber colour.

[Mikey-moo]

Hooray