uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[GrassHopper]

I know people sometimes make a sugar wash after the still has been cleaned, would it be ok to clean it by just buying cheap wine distilling it and then toss what comes out?

Sure, you can run a cheap wine as your "sacrificial" run.

[Hanson423]

Should more yeast be added to the ferment after the first run? Or is it fine?

[GrassHopper]

Should more yeast be added to the ferment after the first run? Or is it fine?

You shouldn't have to add anymore yeast as long as your ferment hasn't sat too long after it is finished. I would say no more than 4 or 5 days. I usually rack it off down to the trub/corn and then tip my barrel over sideways to drain the rest of the liquid and then start a new cycle after removing some discolored corn on top of the bed and adding some fresh to resupply what I remove. You can leave your racked wash for quite some time. Some have gone months, but I like to distill it right away.

[Hanson423]

Ok thank you for all your help GrassHopper. I'm writing this recipe down in my note book right now for when I get started and I'm making side notes. I got one more question....for now. Haha. Dont I just add the product from the first run right into the pot for the second run?

[GrassHopper]

Ok thank you for all your help GrassHopper. I'm writing this recipe down in my note book right now for when I get started and I'm making side notes. I got one more question....for now. Haha. Dont I just add the product from the first run right into the pot for the second run?

Yes. But save up several strip runs (strips are run fast as your system can produce, saving everything, heads, hearts, tails (some don't keep early heads). Then when you have enough feints/low wines to fill your boiler 3/4 full run your low wines for a spirit run and then make your cuts for final product to eight drink white or age on oak. In either case it is advisable to age for a few months.

[Hanson423]

In the recipe he says to siphon out the wash, I was wondering if I can dump out the fermentation and run through a strainer and cheese cloth and then put back in the fermenter? If I do it this way would I have to add more yeast to it?

[jb-texshine]

Yes but for what? That would entail letting the yeast settle out again. I use a cheap pump(20$) in a nylon stocking to pump out a 55 gallon barrel. Don't worry about every last drop.

[Hanson423]

Yes but for what? That would entail letting the yeast settle out again. I use a cheap pump(20$) in a nylon stocking to pump out a 55 gallon barrel. Don't worry about every last drop.

I was just wondering cause I didn't wanna buy a siphon. Haha at least right now

[jb-texshine]

Ive even dipped it out with a tea pitcher.
A piece of water hose or cheap plastic tubing works as a siphon.

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[GrassHopper]

Yes, what JB said. Your overthinking this. You wanna get the clear stuff off down to the corn layer. It's easy, just take some tubing ( I use 1/2" vinyl clear tubing so I can see what's going on), slip a stiff piece of pvc over the tubing to keep it straight and make it the length of your fermenter tub so you know where the bottom end of the pvc is and clamp it to the inside edge of your tub (with a spring clamp) down to where you think the corn is and suck.
Your not sucking gas......this stuff doesn't taste bad. A little tip.....put your fermenter up on something high enough (good idea to do this BEFORE you ferment) so that when you siphon, you can get a receptacle under your siphon hose and it will flow. As you know siphoning doesn't work too good if your trying to go from floor level to floor level. I do this so it can clear even more for a couple days and then I can just lift the 5 gallon bottles up and pour into the boiler. When you get down to the corn layer in the fermenter just tip your barrel a bit to get the rest. I use a screen when I get to the bottom ( a coffee can with mesh stretched over it) and push it down into the corn and then tip the barrel and siphon off the rest. Sometimes I will even tip the barrel all the way over on it's side and drain the remainder of liquid into a small tub. Scrape off the discolored layer of corn (about 1/2"), add more of the same amount you removed, add some water to keep your yeast alive and start a new ferment with your dissolved sugar. No need to add new yeast unless you killed it by letting your finished ferment sit more than 3 or 4 days. You will know, if your yeast is dead if your ferment is not bubbling by the next day. Then just repitch your yeast.

I like JB's method of using a pump for going straight from the fermenter to the boiler. I just don't have a transfer pump, and I doubt whether a submersible will work.

[Snackson]

I like JB's method of using a pump for going straight from the fermenter to the boiler. I just don't have a transfer pump, and I doubt whether a submersible will work.

I use a little itty bitty pond pump and works wonders. 1 gallon paint strainer bag over it helps too.

[jb-texshine]

That's what I use too. I think I paid 20$ for it at home depot in the garden section

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[Hanson423]

I'm on my second batch of UJSSM it's done bubbling and plan to run it Friday. But it doesn't seem to taste as sour and doesn't taste as strong at my first batch. ( I don't have all those tools to measure my stuff with. ) Is this normal? Did I maybe not add enough sugar? I added about 5 lbs of sugar to about 3-4 gallons including the backset. Maybe something else?

[jb-texshine]

You really need to get a hydrometer. That's plenty of sugar to have alcohol. Did you use more a sugar on your first batch?

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[Hanson423]

You really need to get a hydrometer. That's plenty of sugar to have alcohol. Did you use more a sugar on your first batch?

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Haha yes. I used 7 pounds for about 4 gallons water. Idk what I was thinking. But the first run turned out good I think. I was able to get more of an alcohol flavor in the first batch then I do in my current one. At least that's what I remember. I will be getting the tools I need though in the next couple weeks.

[jb-texshine]

The reason you tasted more alcohol is that there was more alcohol from having more sugar. The sugar amount you are using now is closer to the amount you would get from an all grain mash. Specific gravity wise anyway. When you run it you won't get as high proof or get as much BUT it will be noticeably different (smoother).
I personally use 11/4-11/2 pounds of sugar per gallon of water. I aim for a SG of 1.065-1.070 . It's just smoother in that range. Less bite on the tongue.
It'll be fine where your at.
Jb-tex
PS. Brewhaus has hydrometers and alcoholmeters for 4.99$ .
Reliable shipping and excellent customer service.
No I don't work for them.

[Hanson423]

The reason you tasted more alcohol is that there was more alcohol from having more sugar. The sugar amount you are using now is closer to the amount you would get from an all grain mash. Specific gravity wise anyway. When you run it you won't get as high proof or get as much BUT it will be noticeably different (smoother).
I personally use 11/4-11/2 pounds of sugar per gallon of water. I aim for a SG of 1.065-1.070 . It's just smoother in that range. Less bite on the tongue.
It'll be fine where your at.
Jb-tex
PS. Brewhaus has hydrometers and alcoholmeters for 4.99$ .
Reliable shipping and excellent customer service.
No I don't work for them.

Thank you for your help. I will definitely look brewhuas up. I've been hearin the name a lot.
I also used 7 lbs of corn And about a packet and half (or so) of bakers yeast if that matters. But didn't add anymore the second round ( except the spent corn) . It stopped bubbling faster than the first round. It's suppose to to do the right? The first round bubbled for about 4-5 days and the second did about 2 to 2-1/2 days.

Also are there ways of upping alcohol content without upping the bite? Maybe point me in a post that tells about this?

[jb-texshine]

I'm one of the few people that will not give you a link... because I only use a shitty smart(dumb) phone to access the site and can't figure out how.[WINKING FACE] I will how ever answer your questions.
You increase proof by double distilling,or using a thumper. Bigger fermenter and double distillation of reasonable gravity washes is the only way I know to get higher alcohol content without getting into the sugar bite. Not quite the answer you were looking for I know,sorry. But it does allow you to keep quality up while giving you enough for a double distillation spirit run giving higher proof and more product in the long term.
Jb-tex

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[raketemensch]

Man, am I stuck. I've mixed over a pound of calcium carbonate into ~30 gallons of 1.080 UJ, and it hasn't budged anything, I'm still around a solid 3. There are crushed oyster shells in there as well, although they might've been completely dissolved by now. I don't have them in a bag, I just toss them in, so I'm not sure.

I've got an infection as well, but nothing nasty, it actually smells quite good. It's a thick beige cap on top of the barrel.

What would be some good things to try at this point? More CC? Dump in a bunch more oyster shells? Anything else I haven't tried?

[HDNB]

Man, am I stuck. I've mixed over a pound of calcium carbonate into ~30 gallons of 1.080 UJ, and it hasn't budged anything, I'm still around a solid 3. There are crushed oyster shells in there as well, although they might've been completely dissolved by now. I don't have them in a bag, I just toss them in, so I'm not sure.

I've got an infection as well, but nothing nasty, it actually smells quite good. It's a thick beige cap on top of the barrel.

What would be some good things to try at this point? More CC? Dump in a bunch more oyster shells? Anything else I haven't tried?

welcome to my nightmare. I've had exactly the same thing going for 2 weeks on an AG. smells fine, got the Ph back to almost 4, lots of good yeast (i put a bit of sugar in and they gulped it down)...re-did gluco enzyme... smells good, looks fine...been sitting so long starting to get a bit of lacto on top...and you think that prick will move off 1.052???? not a friggin chance.

[raketemensch]

Man, am I stuck. I've mixed over a pound of calcium carbonate into ~30 gallons of 1.080 UJ, and it hasn't budged anything, I'm still around a solid 3. There are crushed oyster shells in there as well, although they might've been completely dissolved by now. I don't have them in a bag, I just toss them in, so I'm not sure.

I've got an infection as well, but nothing nasty, it actually smells quite good. It's a thick beige cap on top of the barrel.

What would be some good things to try at this point? More CC? Dump in a bunch more oyster shells? Anything else I haven't tried?

welcome to my nightmare. I've had exactly the same thing going for 2 weeks on an AG. smells fine, got the Ph back to almost 4, lots of good yeast (i put a bit of sugar in and they gulped it down)...re-did gluco enzyme... smells good, looks fine...been sitting so long starting to get a bit of lacto on top...and you think that prick will move off 1.052???? not a friggin chance.

2 weeks? I'm well over a month now, possibly 2. :]

[NZChris]

Calcium Carbonate (shells) is nowhere near as good as slaked lime for correcting pH, but seeing as you have put so much in, it should do something, surely. How finely ground is it?. Give it a damned good stir every couple of hours. It that doesn't work, try slaked lime.

[raketemensch]

Calcium Carbonate (shells) is nowhere near as good as slaked lime for correcting pH, but seeing as you have put so much in, it should do something, surely. How finely ground is it?. Give it a damned good stir every couple of hours. It that doesn't work, try slaked lime.

Thanks, man. I dug around all the stores around here and couldn't find any. Where do you usually buy it?

[NZChris]

Garden centers have smaller bags than the 56lb bags at the building supply stores, but it's only a few dollars more for the large bags. I also use it around the garden and in the compost, so the hassle factor of dealing with the larger bag is worth it for me.

****I bought a 6 gallon bucket of mollases thinking it would give me a spare fermenter because I needed one at the time. Then I bought a 56lb bag of slaked lime for a stalled ferment. Tipped it into an older 6 gallon fermenter and, bugger me, it took just over half of it The rest of it went into my new fermenter bucket and I still haven't emptied it

[jb-texshine]

Am i the only one that likes this best BEFORE it loses the sweet taste? Like say ,one week to two months of age. Is there a way to keep that sweetness? Adding oats seems to make it (the sweetness)hang around longer. Any other ideas?

[NZChris]

I rather like it as young white dog myself, but I never thought of trying to keep it that way.

I'm thinking that you might be able to preserve it's youth by not blending it until you proof it for drinking.
Keeping the jars full to minimize oxidation would help.

[jb-texshine]

I suspect the solution is probably just to drink faster,lol.

[NZChris]

I suspect the solution is probably just to drink faster,lol.

Just tasting a one year old white dog and it is very good I'm leaving more as white dog with each run now, usually a slightly different cut than for oaking. I got this one right.

[raketemensch]

Calcium Carbonate (shells) is nowhere near as good as slaked lime for correcting pH, but seeing as you have put so much in, it should do something, surely. How finely ground is it?. Give it a damned good stir every couple of hours. It that doesn't work, try slaked lime.

Well, since baking soda was more readily available (meaning: my wife was going to the grocery store), I went with that.

Funny thing about baking soda, when you add it to liquid, it tends to foam. A lot.

[still_stirrin]

Funny thing about baking soda, when you add it to liquid, it tends to foam. A lot.

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and acid produces a salt + water + CO2. The "foam" you're seeing is the CO2 effervescing to the surface very vigorously...so it looks like a foam.

The level of activity indicates that you have quite a lot of acid in the fermenter (low pH) and you've added a lot of baking soda. Unfortunately, baking soda doesn't raise the overall pH significantly, as it is not a strong base. It will also increase the free sodium in the wash (see this equation using vinegar and baking soda):

NaHCO3(s) + CH3COOH(l) → CO2(g) + H2O(l) + Na+(aq) + CH3COO-(aq).
bkg soda + vinegar → carbon dioxide + water + sodium (ion) + acetate (ion)

But this reaction is secondary, as the first step in acid reduction produces sodium acetate and carbonic acid, which due to the instability of aqueous carbonic acid, breaks down into water and carbon dioxide per:

NaHCO3 + HC2H3O2 → NaC2H3O2 + H2CO3
bkg soda + vinegar → sodium acetate + carbonic acid

H2CO3 → H2O + CO2
carbonic acid → water + carbon dioxide

So, the "foam" you see, much like the classroom volcano experiment, is the carbon dioxide "flooding/gushing" up through the wash.

I know...science...it's almost like magic, isn't it?
ss