Producing neutral drink, yeast: does it matter?

[LuckyAddaam]

I understand when fermenting beer for deinking, fermentation temperature and the style of yeast do in fact matter. Different yeast produce different flavors and aromas when fermented at different temperatures. Let's say I'm running my mash in a reflux column to make a neutral "flavorless" spirit. In that case yeast type and fermentation temperature do not matter, do they? All I'm extracting is alcohol. Not cogneners or whatever, just alcohol. So I could ferment the mash as hot as the yeast would allow. Right?

[der wo]

You never extract alcohol only. There will be always some congeners.
Which yeast you use and at what temperature (within limits) you ferment has influence to the spirit. But less than when you brew a beer or mash a wine.

[still_stirrin]

...I'm running my mash in a reflux column to make a neutral "flavorless" spirit...yeast type and fermentation temperature do not matter, do they? All I'm extracting is alcohol. Not cogneners or whatever, just alcohol...So I could ferment the mash as hot as the yeast would allow. Right?

How much have you fermented and distilled? This is a HUGE misnomer.

The flavor of your distillate will reflect the "quality" of your ferment....garbage in...garbage out! If you don't care about your ferment....don't come asking why the spirit smells and tastes like crap.
ss

[LuckyAddaam]

...I'm running my mash in a reflux column to make a neutral "flavorless" spirit...yeast type and fermentation temperature do not matter, do they? All I'm extracting is alcohol. Not cogneners or whatever, just alcohol...So I could ferment the mash as hot as the yeast would allow. Right?

How much have you fermented and distilled? This is a HUGE misnomer.

The flavor of your distillate will reflect the "quality" of your ferment....garbage in...garbage out! If you don't care about your ferment....don't come asking why the spirit smells and tastes like crap.
ss

I have not started anything yet. I was just at work pondering. I work in an ethanol plant and we ferment our corn mash st 88-92 degrees. Of course what we distill is for ethanol fuel, not for drinking so of course fermentation temps are more lenient. I've been told to keep it in the lower 90s or it will kill the yeast. Then that got me thinking about my question.

[still_stirrin]

Most ale yeasts will ferment fine in the 88-92*F range, but they'll produce much more esters and ethyl acetate. In fact, most yeasts are quite happy at, or near the human body temperature. But that doesn't mean it would be a tasty product. But, it will ferment fast, which is undoubtedly the desire of a fuel producing ethanol plant.

But you're planning to drink the product of the ferment. So I would recommend reading more (homebrewing sites would be a great place to gain knowledge about fermenting). Your distilled spirit starts with a good ferment and a reliable recipe.
ss

[Odin]

Champagne yeast is pretty neutral, can stand high temps and abv's.

Odin.

[Shiny Coke]

Champagne yeast is pretty neutral, can stand high temps and abv's.

Odin.

+1 - When I'm doing a neutral I usually go the route of UJSSM with EC-118 champagne yeast. That said, I've recently added 14#'s of inverted sugar to the grains of a previously drained bourbon mash with Baker's yeast. I'll be running it on the weekend likely and am interested to see the differences between the 2.

[MDH]

If you ultimately want to make a neutral with no flavor at all, yes, you can ferment basically however you want... But you will need the kind of still that can effectively compress and remove most of those flavors, and then commit the sin of carbon filtration (It's not really a sin, but is seen by people here as a "crutch" because most here want their vodka to have some trace of flavor).

I've been making vodka using neutral white grapes for some time, but have also used white wheat flour, converted it with enzymes, then fermented it with saison yeasts at a warm temperature (>70).

Keep in mind that mash protocol and yeast variety will have a huge effect on yields.

[Odin]

... and make sure fermentation procedures favor low esterification. Tastes that aren't formed, don't have to be seperated out via distilling.

Think:
- pH of around 5.5 - 6;
- Champagne yeast;
- Ferment at lower temps;
- No organics present (grains, fruits);
- Enough nutrients to keep the yeast happy.

Regards, Odin.

[700G]

I like DADY, but like White Labs WLP078 even better for neutral.

[LuckyAddaam]

What about....http://www.martrexinc.com/yeast.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow the gold label??

[still_stirrin]

Addaam,

It's hard to tell if the ethanol fuel yeast will be effective for beverage alcohol. Obviously developed to tolerate high glucose ferments and higher ferment temperatures demonstrates practicality for fuel making processes as it will undoubtedly ferment very rapidly.

But a rapid ferment at warmer temperatures also will produce congeners which will affect a beverage product negatively. I certainly would not ferment a cereal beverage mash the same way I'd ferment a cereal fuel mash, simply because of the quality of the product.

Would that "fuel maker" yeast work....sure, it will work. But pay attention to your mash and don't try to make it an ethanol for fuel product, unless that is indeed your intention here.

Fermax makes yeast and yeast nutrients for the fuel industry. Their nutrients are very powerful and will produce an aggressive ferment. For nutrient deficient washes (like a sugar wash), the nutrients are of great benefit.

So, if the yeast is available to you easily, then use it. But, use it appropriately to produce the product you desire: spirits or fuel.
ss

[Johnnywhiskey]

Does the yeast matter for making a neutral? In my experience, yes and no.

It does not matter in the sense that you will be distilling to a high proof, hopefully stripping out all of the flavor. If one run does not remove all of the flavor, water it down and run it again.

The yeast does matter for flavor because you are probably saving yourself some work at the still by having a clean ferment with a low ester, low flavor yeast to start with. I like champagne yeast for lower temperatures and DADY if you can keep the ferment over 80F.

Also the best tip I have found for making a super clean neutral is to add some some baking soda or calcium bicarbonate to you low wines between runs. The base completely removes any sweetness from residual esters. There are a number of threads on this process. Also to the extent you can get up to 190 proof (195 proof is even better), the spirit is significantly more neutral than if you are only hitting 180 or 185 proof.