Looks like I'm on me own :(

[Pikey]

It would be interesting to write to Admiralty House and ask them if you can access the purchasing records for that time. Then you would have a producer(s), which would at least get you on the way to finding out what it was like.
As for the sailors sob story.. I get enough from my brothers

So you ALL got sent away to be in the forces then ?

What did you do wrong ?

[NeillNI]

Family tradition..and they paid for my degree etc, so only fair to offer service in return. I'm not sure why they chose the RN.. perhaps to be 'different' (one is even a soap dodger ffs) That said, even here in NI, it was a good single man's life.

[Pikey]

No I have no idea what Real "Navy Rum" tasted like ! So why do you want to make Navy Rum? Because it sounds cool?

I had a perceprion that Captain Morgan was sold as a "navy rum" - It appears that I was wrong, and the others which vary so much and are sold as "Navy Style" cannot all be right, and none actually says "As sold to the Navy" - the more I find out about the original NAvy Rum, the more I just want to follow my initial statement and follow the style of a Captain Morgan or a Lambs.

Edit:

Undoubtably Rum has "additives" after the "stilling" and that is really no different from "Gin" and I think the oak we use is just a "flavouring" in many ways. Yes. But it's different from adding sugar, caramel, vanillin and glycerol.

Perhaps that distinction is just a case of cognitive dissonance.

[der wo]

Perhaps that distinction is just a case of cognitive dissonance.

Perhaps we all should try once the Prestige essences for Rum or Bourbon with tpw neutral. Perhaps all the effort with AG and oak is overrated.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Perhaps we all should try once the Prestige essences for Rum or Bourbon with tpw neutral. Perhaps all the effort with AG and oak is overrated.

[WIski]

der wo wrote:
Perhaps we all should try once the Prestige essences for Rum or Bourbon with tpw neutral. Perhaps all the effort with AG and oak is overrated.

der wo, I always enjoy your insightful and informative posts but "perhaps" you have gone bonkers.........

[Pikey]

OK - so here we go ! I have a little "thin" backset (dunder - fresh) from a Bacardi (ish)- probably around 12 litres - That is going in the Tub. Now Molasses - I'm going in with 3 Litres for the trial run and 3.5 kg sugar (taking the molasses to be around 50% sugar.) The extra sugar is to compensate for my lack of "Skummings" and to make up for my perception that there has been more sugar extracted from the molasses I bought than at the distillery. I will try to check the PH and adjust if neccessary to between 5 & 6. EC1118 and some nutrient and air. Water to 25 litres.

That will get started tomorrow if I find time. Do not expect a run for a while, my ferments take some time as a rule.

[NZChris]

It seems that Captain Morgan buys it's rums in, then blends and redistills them at their distillery at Saint Croix. Taking a distillery tour and asking lots of questions might get some info.
There is a photo of the still at http://www.stcroixtourism.com/captainmorgan/

[Pikey]

There's not a lot of Wood & Copper in that monstrosity - is there ? - Well found though

It's not as far from me as it is from you Chris, but still a long haul flight to DOm Rep which is fairly close - then how to get there ? If I ever go to the Carribean again, I'll see if we can factor it in.

By the time you take a few dozen different rums, mix and redistil, any "blending" priior to that is going to have pretty minimal effect I would think. Lots of flavour left out too ! - I bet that goes into the "Black one".

In the meanwhile, I'll see what I can do about getting the "cloudy" out of the tails of that last "light rum" I made. - Buccaneer Bob said he filtered the distillate through cotton cloth - if memory serves, to get rid of the "Molasses Gum" - I'll start there.

Then see what i can do about trying to identify "spices" and fruit - any suggestions folks ? - Dates give quite a nice smoothness and mouthfeel - Do they grow dates around there ? I've seen Chilli mentioned, and also coconut - suppose I need to buy a bottle and maybe split it with a guy I know - brainstorm it to see what we can find in there.

[HDNB]

Perhaps that distinction is just a case of cognitive dissonance.

Perhaps we all should try once the Prestige essences for Rum or Bourbon with tpw neutral. Perhaps all the effort with AG and oak is overrated.

tried both. save the time and the money. the bourbon gets a minus 10 and the rum gets a minus 4 on the 1 to 10 scale...minus 10 being twice as bad as not having any booze (rates right down there with aquavelva aftershave) and minus four only being slightly half as bad as no rum at all. Where has all the rum gone?

[NZChris]

It's pretty hard to guess without a glass in your hand.
I don't see anyone online saying it tastes of dates or coconut, so adding them is probably a mistake. My rums develop coconut while aging on JD chips, so adding more to the wash or a distillation would make it overpowering.

If you do think of a botanical that would help, you can run some of the rum through it in a mini gin still and blend it back.

[Pikey]

Thanks for that Chris, I never thought of incorporating bots like that. I'm not expecting to hit it exact first time, just to get towards the right Type of flavour really. It's the "Dark" flavours I'm most puzzled about - It's not Molasses - There's not really much if any "Treacle" taste. Dunder ? not really convinced - I'll have a good taste of the backset when I add it to the wash - see if that shows any promise.

[Stainless]

Rum is not traditional.
Nelson was stuffed into a cask/barrel of brandy to preserve him.
So who drank the overspill?
Will.

[thecroweater]

Gee whiz there is some bull dust in this thread. Firstly Captain Morgan is not and makes no pretence to be a naval rum, 2 traditional naval rums are not made in continuous columns some rums are but they are not naval rums). 3 rum is very traditional since the British and other navies changed from beer to rum in the 1600s to save on storage. Rum being chosen simply because the British had resently conquered a fair swag of the west indies and had easy access to a very cheap supply. 4 Lord Nelson's corpse was brought home in a cask of rum, the barrel was discovered to be tapped and fairly empty when it was opened to remove his body and Nelsons blood became a moniker for naval rum for that reason. 5 smoothing agents like caramel are used in almost all rums to varying degrees.
A couple of nice ways to infuse coconut into run that I have done from time to time result in nice but different results. One very easy way is to get a coconut drill it and remove the coconut milk/water and fill with rum recork and leave for a couple of days for green nuts or longer for older nuts. The other way get desicated coconut and boil it in water for a good while till the shavings are devoid of flavour. Then strain it and allow it to cool in a refrigerator until a layer of solid fat forms, remove this and re-strain it. Boil this with a little treacle or golden syrup to taste and temper your rum down to the proof you want say 35 to 40% abv.

[NZChris]

Chris, rather than trying to make your own caramel, you could try some of that Gravy Browning (Sarsons) I linked to - it's only aboyu £1 a bottle over here and although based on caramel, it has no sweetness noticeable and the colour is really quite intense. Very slight saltiness, but in the quantities we would need, not a problem imo.

I couldn't find it locally, so I had another try at making it. It looks and smells ok. I'm waiting for it to dissolve, then I'll see if I can find a blend I like.

[thecroweater]

the trick it to keep heating it until it is not sweet and on the point of burning if you plan to make distillers caramel (E150a) rather than a simple smoothing agent.that is you must get all the water to evapourare out of the sugar so need to heat slow while stirring until it is quite black and bitterish but not actually burnt. This is distillers caramel and a very small amount will colour a lot without influencing flavour in any detectable way. The only real purpose it service is to give a darker consistent colour associated with long term aging and really only a great idea if matching it with a heavier oak flavour. That is to say if you have a heavy oak infusion on light colour your pre-perseption won't match what you taste and vice visa.

[NZChris]

What I did for the caramel matches your description Crow.

Also, I have accidentally made an oak essence about as dark as Coke that can be added or replicated as takes my fancy. I made it about 18 months ago and the strong tannin has subsided and it's now drinkable without blending. I'll see how the blending goes tomorrow, then I might blend up a charge to put in The Reactor with enough oak to darken it up a lot more and be drinkable in a year or so.

[Still Life]

Pikey~
Check this out for other "Navy" brands:
http://gizmodo.com/a-beginners-guide-to ... 1694043250

[Mikey-moo]

Or go straight for the jugular!

If I could afford a bottle of this I'd love to try it... https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/121 ... stingNotes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"A drop of water releases notes of black banana, liquorice root, tamarind paste with an exotic edge of balsamic."

With regard to adding botanicals to attempt something similar - how's about macerating some black garlic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_garlic_(food" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)

"The taste is sweet and syrupy with hints of balsamic vinegar[1] or tamarind.[2]"

I like this thread

[Still Life]

... https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/121 ... stingNotes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ...

hot damn. I'm in the right hobby and wrong business.

[Pikey]

Or go straight for the jugular!

If I could afford a bottle of this I'd love to try it... https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/121 ... stingNotes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"A drop of water releases notes of black banana, liquorice root, tamarind paste with an exotic edge of balsamic."
...........

Wow - That's well aged Mikey - I bet it didn't taste the same 40 odd years ago

Thing is that's a full gallon (UK) bottle - so around £360 for a normal bottle - maybe £12 for a shot or £90 a quarter bottle - I'm thinking I'd certainly run to a "double" - probably a quarter bottle at those numbers - Just now need another 23 of like mind over here and we could have a little "Meet an' greet" based on that and a few samples we might bring along of our own.

[Pikey]

Pikey~
Check this out for other "Navy" brands:
http://gizmodo.com/a-beginners-guide-to ... 1694043250

Nice lead SL - thanks - I note one of the more credible ones refers to "Evaporated cane juice" as one of the ingredients - brings us around to those bloody "Skummings" again plus the "distillers caramel" crow refers to and NZC is trying to make. (I'd love to hear more about NZC's "oak extract" too btw )

Naturally I can't get "cane juice" over here except some stuff they call "organic" and sell at a price which would make just buying the rum look viable !

[Mikey-moo]

Or go straight for the jugular!

If I could afford a bottle of this I'd love to try it... https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/p/121 ... stingNotes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"A drop of water releases notes of black banana, liquorice root, tamarind paste with an exotic edge of balsamic."
...........

Wow - That's well aged Mikey - I bet it didn't taste the same 40 odd years ago

Thing is that's a full gallon (UK) bottle - so around £360 for a normal bottle - maybe £12 for a shot or £90 a quarter bottle - I'm thinking I'd certainly run to a "double" - probably a quarter bottle at those numbers - Just now need another 23 of like mind over here and we could have a little "Meet an' greet" based on that and a few samples we might bring along of our own.

No that's a single 70cl bottle

[Pikey]

Are we looking at the same thing Mikey ?

".... FREE UK standard delivery
£2,250 £1,875 ex VAT (£500 per litre)...."

[NZChris]

My oak essence was just a fast aging trial using a new batch of toasted, charred, oak. Held at 152F for six days in a 2/3 full vessel of new make UJSSM, it came out black with very strong tannin, so I now only use a third as much of that wood when oaking.

It's nice to see some tasting notes for the Navy Rum. An essence made with a bit of narrow cut new make run through those botanicals in a mini gin still could be worth a try.

[Mikey-moo]

Are we looking at the same thing Mikey ?

".... FREE UK standard delivery
£2,250 £1,875 ex VAT (£500 per litre)...."

Aaah I see the flagon now... scroll up more... the link I posted was to a single bottle

[NZChris]

I've tried my caramel and made up a rum that has the same cloying sweetness that I don't like in Captain Morgan Spiced Rum, the only Captain Morgan I have to compare it to. The rums I blended my sample out of are experimental ones made out of heads and feints and fast aging trickery and it tastes surprisingly close to the CMSR.

If my pub has bottle of CM dark, I'll bring home a nip to compare, but I'm not buying a whole bottle when I make better.

Side by side with Black Heart, the caramel is about the same, but my feints experiments have much more flavor, some of it coming from a very ripe dunder pit. Both are not great for sipping and need to be drowned in Coke.

[Pikey]

.........My own experiments with "Bacardi(ish)" give me tastes in both "Heads" and "Tails", which I recognise strongly from the commercial brews. It may be that I concentrate on these elements and use most ot the "Hearts" for something else........

I've tried my caramel and made up a rum that has the same cloying sweetness that I don't like in Captain Morgan Spiced Rum, the only Captain Morgan I have to compare it to. The rums I blended my sample out of are experimental ones made out of heads and feints and fast aging trickery and it tastes surprisingly close to the CMSR.

If my pub has bottle of CM dark, I'll bring home a nip to compare, but I'm not buying a whole bottle when I make better.

Side by side with Black Heart, the caramel is about the same, but my feints experiments have much more flavor, some of it coming from a very ripe dunder pit. Both are not great for sipping and need to be drowned in Coke.

Great to hear your experiments are proving to be going in the "right" direction chris.

I've manged to secure some "Light" and also "Dark" Muscovado sugar at sensible prices, so my ferment is on hold for a few days until it arrives. I'm assuming that is the closest I can get to "real" cane juice, perhaps even with some of the "Skummings" still in there?

maybe we can now speculate a little as to what really happened here ? Perhaps the "blending" from all these different sources was in reality just a gathering together of all the "junk rums" from various sources, which were tipped into vats and then these were distilled again, to get the "good rum" (hearts) which was light and clear and went to make the "pina-coladas" etc for the hierarchy.

The waste (Feints) - heads and tails, - went into wooden barrels just because that was what they had and after a while, was drawn off complete with various "gum" and "Oils" which could be seen. It was decided that it was cheaper to serve this to the already alcoholic sailors than the Brandy they had been serving and it was a simple matter to add that "non-sweet" caramel crow refers to and which was already produced in England, so it could be brought over easily, as a cover for the lack of clarity in the "rum".

I guess in the meanwhile, I'll be putting some oak into something and keeping it warm for a few days

[Edit - I'm ambivalent as to whether they would heve "cut the fores" although experience with current commercial brews leads me to think not ! I shall be taking them out though ]

[nerdybrewer]

Since we're talking about different things added to rum...
For Christmas last year I made up some chocolate caramel and blended that with some of my aged rum.
It was a huge hit, especially among the female family members at Christmas dinner.
Definitely one I'll be asked for again.
Nice thing about using my own rum was that it didn't impart a huge hangover which you would expect with a commercially made cordial.

[der wo]

Yes, the Navy always spent 1000$ per bottle for their soldiers.

I think, original Naval Rum was always the cheapest possible Rum the Navy could get. So I think it was molasses rum distilled without cuts and dilution down to gunpowder proof. Stored in a barrel perhaps with some spices and sweeteners to mask the young and low quality taste. And when the more economical continuous columns came up, no drop was potstilled anymore. Probably all the soldiers liked the new cleaner taste. Noone looked back with romantic feelings.

I understand if you want a dark flavorful Rum and if you want to use additives. But to name it "Naval" is pure marketing. Don't belive the hype.
The first step to a flavorful Rum would be to avoid any type of sugar and use molasses only.