Shady's Sugar Shine

[shadylane]

Don't try to reuse the yeast bed. I don't know why this happened, but whenever I tried to use the previous yeast, that ferment finished .01 higher than the previous batch. The original batch ended at .091. Then next batch ended at 1.001. The next one ended at 1.011. Weirdest thing. As soon as I cleaned out the bed and pitched fresh yeast, bam right back to .091 or so.

I've seen the exact same thing.
There's something in trub the yeast doesn't like

[OtisT]

Well, I am very happy with this. I ran it last weekend, and have my carbed apple pie in the keg getting co2.

I stripped then ran the low wines through the ccvm. There were twice as much heads than other recipes, but just as much hearts. That's ok, the lines just moved. I normally have hearts from jars 8ish through 15ish. They were like 13 through 21ish. I kept 12 and 22, becuase I was trying to get to a full gallon of 50% for my recipe. I laid down the next one and stripped it today. Will cut closer tomorrow.

All and all, my go to recipe. I don't know how the ratios of Fermax compare to shady's op recipe, but it worked awesome. Fermax, sugar, yeast! My wife absolutely loves it, and says it is so much better than last year's vodka.

Im sold. Thanks shady!

Hi SCD. How many total jars were in the collection? Said you kept 12-22. Also, What was your cutoff point? (Approximate ABV off of the still) Just looking for a relative comparison. Shady’s Sugar Shine is next on my to-do list.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

The abv was 96% all the way through. I think I collected 30 jars and then stopped, becuase I knew I was in tails.

It's fair to say that several runs after this post, my first jar was 7, and tails set in around 18.

Jar numbers mean nothing, and are only a reference. Even the same recipe can change drastically. Just collect in 200ml increment and taste. You never know.

[OtisT]

The abv was 96% all the way through. I think I collected 30 jars and then stopped, becuase I knew I was in tails.

It's fair to say that several runs after this post, my first jar was 7, and tails set in around 18.

Jar numbers mean nothing, and are only a reference. Even the same recipe can change drastically. Just collect in 200ml increment and taste. You never know.

Thanks SCD. I know that the jar number is relative. You were so nice to say jar numbers, so I figured I would get the missing piece of data (last jar #) to make sense of it all. I’m kind of particular that way, wanting relative numbers. I document everything by % of total collection volume. I always calculate what my yield volume will be then divide by 20 to set my small jar collection size. Then I use larger jars for solid heads/hearts/tails and use the small jars for the transitions in between where I’m likely to make a cut. I use my nose to know where the transitions are. Works for me.

Just went and got all I need for a batch of Shady’s Sugar Shine. One thing the store did not have was the Fermax but they did have a nutrient called Fermaid K. It’s cheep so I picked up 2 oz to try. Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium, Inactive yeast, Thiamine, Niacin, and DAP. I’ll be adding four B Complex capsules as well.

Otis

[OtisT]

Shady, your recipe makes some damn fine neutral. At 40%, this stuff smells and drinks like water. Easiest and Best neutral I have ever made.

“Happy yeast make good neutral”

Thanks Shady.
Otis

[Windy City]

Has anybody had a problem with the B complex vitamin flavor coming over.
Any preference on capsules, tablets or brands.
Not sure if it had a stronger smell/taste due to its age (probably 6 months to a year old)

[Expat]

Has anybody had a problem with the B complex vitamin flavor coming over.
Any preference on capsules, tablets or brands.
Not sure if it had a stronger smell/taste due to its age (probably 6 months to a year old)

Shady's sugar is really similar to my normal recipe,. In my experience nothing comes over from the multi vitamins.

Preferred brand is El-CheepO or free-expired if you can find them. Anything that isn't a chewable and contains the required nutrients.

Multies I use give the wash a mild orange tint, but they do the job

[shadylane]

Has anybody had a problem with the B complex vitamin flavor coming over.
Any preference on capsules, tablets or brands.

I can't taste any of the vitamin flavor coming over.
But that's probably due to running a reflux still.
I'm not conviced anymore that multi vitamins are needed. But it doesnt hurt.
I hate grinding pills, so I put them in a jar with water.
After awhile all you got to do is shake the jar and pour a little bit in the fermeniter.

[OtisT]

Has anybody had a problem with the B complex vitamin flavor coming over.
Any preference on capsules, tablets or brands.
Not sure if it had a stronger smell/taste due to its age (probably 6 months to a year old)

I sure did noticed them in the ferment. I use B Complex capsules, and those make the wash yellow/orange and I can smell it there, just like what you pee when you take a lot of vitamins. I bought a jar of 100 capsules a few years back (expired now by more than a year) and still use them in ferments with no problems that I know of.

I didn’t notice them coming over in the strip, and I did look (smell) for them there. For sure they did not come over in the column spirit run.

Otis

[Kareltje]

The strongest smell I noticed was the smell of the killed yeast, but this did not come over in the distillate.

[shadylane]

The strongest smell I noticed was the smell of the killed yeast, but this did not come over in the distillate.

The recipe damn sure has plenty of cannibalized bakers yeast
It's not logical, but the extra yeast seems to make the late heads and hearts smoother

[Kareltje]

I asked myself: why not add two doses of live yeast in stead of killing one dose and add the other alive.

This article https://www.schneider-oenologie.com/dow ... aerung.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow suggests that your method is better, because the added live yeast feeds on the dead (as expected) and becomes more than twice as active.

Show Spoiler

(But I find it hard to close my ears for the desperate shrieking of yeast cells in the hot water. I keep telling them they die for a great cause and the greater good and contribute to a better spirit, but they seem not very convinced.)

[shadylane]

Sure wish I could understand German

[Kareltje]

Try automatic translate. I could even understand Russian and Polish.

The relevant part:
Amount of yeast vs airing

One can ask whether the improvement of final fermentation as reached with airing can not easier be reached by adding more yeast cells. To test this we made three washes: one with 10 gr/l of yeast withput airing, one with 10 gr/l with airing and one with 20 gr/l.
The result is in abb. 4. We see that doubling the yeast from 10 to 20 gr/l results in only 57 % higher final yeast cell count. With enlarged seeding of yeast the growth rate diminishes. The highest end cell count was reached with 10 gr/l at the start and additional airing. So we see that optimal oxygen dosing is more important than yeast dosing for getting a dry wine.

[Terrenum]

Nice one shady

I got tired of reading about failed sugar washes
Based on what I've learned here, the combination of boiled yeast and crushed oyster shells with coral.
Really helps with nutrients and pH control

What is the PH we are trying to achieve here. I do not have access to oysters shell (unless I buy some and eat them!) but I have lactic acid I use for my beer mash that I could use to drop the PH

Cheers

[shadylane]

What is the PH we are trying to achieve here.

Fermentation naturally lowers the pH.
If the pH falls below 3.5ish the yeast starts pissing more nasties and fermentation will slow down. Below 3 it will stop.

I do not have access to oysters shell (unless I buy some and eat them!) but I have lactic acid I use for my beer mash that I could use to drop the PH

Lactic acid will definitly lower the pH. But that's going in the wrong direction.
The yeast is already heading that way, the idea is to slow it down.

[Terrenum]

Got it! Thanks Shady. Found some shell so not a problem! WIll follow proven instruction
S

[shadylane]

Got it! Thanks Shady. Found some shell so not a problem! WIll follow proven instruction
S

This sugar wash recipe is based on keeping the yeast alive and happy
I use it for nutrients/pH control in other recipes
So don't be bashful, adapt it as you see fit

[Kareltje]

Got it! Thanks Shady. Found some shell so not a problem! WIll follow proven instruction
S

I do not have shells either, but I use egg scales. I take the fleeces out and use the calcium outer scales.
Funny: they are reduced to flimsy thingies after fermentation.

[smokenace]

What kind of multi-vitamins do you use Shandy?

[shadylane]

The cheapest available

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I used "super b vitamins with vitamin c". I'm sure he used a true multi vitamin, but really the b vitamins are the important ones.

[smokenace]

thanks.

[KhanVict]

Thanks, Shady, for your guidance on this recipe. Works like a charm, especially if you incorporate those crushed oyster shells at the beginning of the ferment.

For those looking to purchase crushed oyster shells: My local Tractor Supply had a fifty pound bag (not a typo) for $11!! I suggest looking there, or at feed & seed stores before you hit up Amazon. Matter of fact, I saw they were pushing a free/reduced shipping deal for Father's Day.

Stay Classy, Friends.

[Mr Sippy]

Just wanted to chime in because sugar wash is all I have run; 12 or so batches. Of varying recipes.
What I've concluded and/or learned:

If you use a yeast nutrient the B vitamins are not necessary. I can't discern any carryover in flavor with either or both. Or time to completion.

Oyster shells need to have a distributed presence in the wash for a large (30 gal) ferment. Lying on the bottom results in crash. With calcium carbonate, hydroxide, etc what matters is the CCE or calcium carbonate equivalent. It should be listed on the bag. That gives a unified reference. It takes over 2 weeks from cloudy to clear with degassing.

I use Great Lakes water which is heavy (but not heavy enough) in alkalinity. Water pH can be a misleading number. Alkalinity is the more meaningful number and the actual buffer. Mine is 400 ppm (per water dept) with about 200 of that cal-mag. Adding 3 tsp potassium carbonate per 5 gal keeps the pH at 4.4 (starts around 7.5).

Experiments with calcium and potassium carbonates show marked difference in clarity. I don't think potassium carbonate 'clears'. I believe it completely dissolves but again can't discern any flavor carryover. I need 5 tsp/5 gal when using a lime product of CCE 131%

I'm still learning. AG... someday

Cheers

Edit: I don't use citric acid any more. Can't tell if it does anything more than diminish buffering capacity.
Also not convinced on aeration. From hydroponics I know that the warmer the water the less dissolved oxygen can be held. Hot water holds very little. How that translates to yeast I'm not sure yet.

[BenDunker]

I started three 6.5 buckets of this sugar shine and as reading through the posts, I skipped the vitamins on all three.. the first seemed to be ok, but the other two buckets quickly foamed up and smelled like rotten eggs. So I did the adjustment like advised. I put some copper into the bucket to get rid of the sulfur and added the vitamins. I have not tried the shine yet, but I just hope desperately the sulfur or the multi vitamin taste will NOT shine through at the end. Those two flavours are really the worst flavour you can have in a spirit.
Here my thought:
I really love the fact that the little sock of coral keeps the PH under control and I really love how busy all three buckets bubble (the airlock). The tomato paste wash is much slower compared to this sugar shine.
The TPW tastes fresh and a bit sweet which is ok for me, but I got curious after people wrote that this shine will taste much cleaner and much better than the TPW, but at the moment I am afraid the horrible sulfur taste will stay and/or the even worse multi vitamin flavour will stay in the distillate.

How about adding the coral bag to the tomato paste wash to keep the ph under control over there? then on the other hand you add citric acid to the TPW. If you then add the coral stuff it is like adding plus AND minus at the same time (acidic and basic ingredients at the same time!?)...

What do you guys think? stay with TPW or with this shine recipe? Add coral to TPW to keep the ph in check just like on this one? which recipe tastes better if done right?

TPW seems to be cheaper too..
Tomato paste, citric acid, epsom salt, yeast vs. double the amount of yeast, DAP, epsom salt, multi vitamins

[Mr Sippy]

How about adding the coral bag to the tomato paste wash to keep the ph under control over there? then on the other hand you add citric acid to the TPW. If you then add the coral stuff it is like adding plus AND minus at the same time (acidic and basic ingredients at the same time!?)...

Keep the coral bag. The wash requires a buffer to pH changes. Better to keep pH buffered to change than to correct later. The bulk of the sock ensures enough alkalinity, assuming good distribution. The tendency towards acidity during fermentation will be held in check until the alkalinity is used up. Then it crashes.

I don't get using citric acid. I never worried about the starting pH in a sugar wash. I use tap water at around 7.5. Folks have used it for inverting sugar to make it 'sweeter' but I really can't tell any difference. I think the use of citric acid has been perpetuated along those lines.

Using tomato is acidic but you have it well buffered it seems. To reduce chance of infection I make a calculation for strike temperature. Mine is in a spreadsheet but this is the basis https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/temp ... _1754.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cheers

[OtisT]

I started three 6.5 buckets of this sugar shine and as reading through the posts, I skipped the vitamins on all three.. the first seemed to be ok, but the other two buckets quickly foamed up and smelled like rotten eggs. So I did the adjustment like advised. I put some copper into the bucket to get rid of the sulfur and added the vitamins. I have not tried the shine yet, but I just hope desperately the sulfur or the multi vitamin taste will NOT shine through at the end. Those two flavours are really the worst flavour you can have in a spirit.
Here my thought:
I really love the fact that the little sock of coral keeps the PH under control and I really love how busy all three buckets bubble (the airlock). The tomato paste wash is much slower compared to this sugar shine.
The TPW tastes fresh and a bit sweet which is ok for me, but I got curious after people wrote that this shine will taste much cleaner and much better than the TPW, but at the moment I am afraid the horrible sulfur taste will stay and/or the even worse multi vitamin flavour will stay in the distillate.

How about adding the coral bag to the tomato paste wash to keep the ph under control over there? then on the other hand you add citric acid to the TPW. If you then add the coral stuff it is like adding plus AND minus at the same time (acidic and basic ingredients at the same time!?)...

What do you guys think? stay with TPW or with this shine recipe? Add coral to TPW to keep the ph in check just like on this one? which recipe tastes better if done right?

TPW seems to be cheaper too..
Tomato paste, citric acid, epsom salt, yeast vs. double the amount of yeast, DAP, epsom salt, multi vitamins

Hi bendunker. This looks like your first post. You should read the info on new users to the forum and introduce yourself as directed. I’m sure an admin can point you in the right direction.

Regarding vitamins. As Shady said in Rule #1: Don’t stress the yeast. Not using nutrients will cause stress and your ferment will not only produce off flavors, but it likely won’t finish dry either. I’ve never had the taste of victims come through distillation. Even the stinky vitamin B complexes I have used don’t survive the strip. I replaced the vitamin list in this original recipe with “Firmaid K” with success.

I prefer Shady’s shine to TWP, but that is just my preference. Maybe it’s because I did my TWPs when I was greener and am better at fermenting now? I know there are those who swear by the TWP. I think in either case, follow the directions w/o deviation (like forgoing vitamins) for best success and support.

Otis

[BenDunker]

My apologies, I didn't know.

here I did, in case you are still interested:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=74957&p=7566897#p7566897

[shadylane]

Regarding vitamins. As Shady said in Rule #1: Don’t stress the yeast. Not using nutrients will cause stress and your ferment will not only produce off flavors, but it likely won’t finish dry either. I’ve never had the taste of victims come through distillation. Even the stinky vitamin B complexes I have used don’t survive the strip. I replaced the vitamin list in this original recipe with “Firmaid K” with success.

I think you meant Vitamins
The victims of this recipe, are the yeast that got boiled to death for nutrients