New TIG, completing a shotgun build

[pope]

I got a new tig welder (new to welding here, well-researched before I struck an arc). Busy couple weeks but my SO said 'why don't you take some time to yourself today to play video games or something' so I went to the garage and pulled out a 2-year-old failed shotgun build and welded it all together. And I figured more than anyone else y'all would appreciate sharing.

It's about a 22" long 2" pipe with seven 3/8" tubes and two baffle plates inside. Nothing too fancy and honestly and I'm fixing some failed MAPP brazes so it was pretty ugly, but it's ready for a soldered-on union to thread it onto the lyne arm and get going. I plan to swap condensers and perform spirit runs on a good 'ole leibig but my change my tune once I've played with my shotgun build.

Question: with my shotgun, my setup will now look a lot like the forum logo, a lyne arm that goes up, over, and a condenser than brings output down about 4" to the side of the base of my electric keg/kettle. I'll lift the kettle up on a stainless tubing frame which should make this perfect for jars and small jugs to collect spirit runnings, but I need to move my output off to the side to get it into a jug for low wines. Any tips? With my new welding super powers I'm thinking of making a funnel-to-tube gizmo that can clamp to my benchtop (e kettle) and redirect the flow off the side and down the neck of a glass carboy. Thoughts? I'm sure someone's been in my situation and solved it elegantly.

[Twisted Brick]

Question: with my shotgun, my setup will now look a lot like the forum logo, a lyne arm that goes up, over, and a condenser than brings output down about 4" to the side of the base of my electric keg/kettle. I'll lift the kettle up on a stainless tubing frame which should make this perfect for jars and small jugs to collect spirit runnings, but I need to move my output off to the side to get it into a jug for low wines. Any tips? With my new welding super powers I'm thinking of making a funnel-to-tube gizmo that can clamp to my benchtop (e kettle) and redirect the flow off the side and down the neck of a glass carboy. Thoughts? I'm sure someone's been in my situation and solved it elegantly.

First off, congrats to you for rehabbing your leaky shotgun with your new skills. You will love the freedom and performance it provides.

Your question may re-open up the contentious argument of whether or not a vertical shotgun performs better than an angled one. Although I believe in the physics of dwell time, I run my shotgun (2" x 21") at an angle, primarily for convenient takeoff. A few months ago, over cocktails I had a discussion about this with a lady I do yoga with who also happens to own a large engineering firm specializing in commercial boilers, steam generators and heat exchangers and she told me "we run our smaller shell and tube condensers vertically".

I doubt anyone on HD can rustle up documentation that proves one orientation is superior than the other. I have been invited to tour her facility and intend on meeting with the engineers for their thoughts, but to me, on our hobby scale, there is no right or wrong in whatever approach you take. If you do the custom funnel-to-tube re-direct gizmo, it means you get to build something.

[Yummyrum]

Not that I have one or see the need for one , but a parrot with a long beak ( or tube ) might be both another project and help your situation .

[decoy]

clamp a 3/8 tube somewhere secure near the end of your take off expand the end or solder a joiner to it, bend a sideways S with another tube and make a funnel for it.
Size the S and funnel to what suits
If you dont solder the top of the joiner where the S and funnel slip into you can swivel it out of the way.

[decoy]

Condenser orientation;
Taking into consideration hot gasses rise, Ideally a condenser will perform best in a vertical configuration whith the vapor feeding in from the top downward and with the coolant entering/flowing from the bottom upward.

Then you need to take vapor dynamics into consideration.
As the steam passes through a condenser it will condense when it comes in contact with a cooler surface.
When the steam changes state back to liquid it will form a negative pressure cavity drawing more steam to fill the void.

With what we do there would not be to much difference if the condenser was mounted horizontally.
However a vertical condenser with steam flowing upward would be the worst design.

[zapata]

If I could be bothered to find a windows machine I'd post a reliable reference against vertical product condensers. It's in an industrial heat exchanger design software package that stated, and quantified the difference, particularly for condensers where "sub cooling" was desired. I don't think it was anywhere near enough a difference to make much matter to us, as we shouldn't be running on the ragged edge anyway.

But, as it stands I can't actually be bothered to find a windows machine so you'll have to take my word for it. Or not seeing as how there are contradicting words for it either way. I know for me, if I really really cared, I wouldn't go dead vertical. But I also know I'm not gonna put myself in the position of really really caring. Especially in OP's case, a 7 tube 22" long condenser don't need any help, it'll get the job done.

[Twisted Brick]

If I could be bothered to find a windows machine I'd post a reliable reference against vertical product condensers. It's in an industrial heat exchanger design software package that stated, and quantified the difference, particularly for condensers where "sub cooling" was desired. I don't think it was anywhere near enough a difference to make much matter to us, as we shouldn't be running on the ragged edge anyway.

Ha! I almost stated "I doubt anyone on HD can rustle up documentation that proves one orientation is superior than the other except Zapata".

If you ever come across that heat exchanger design software and it's handy, I'd love to read through it.

[pope]

Love the responses! Didn't know this was such a contentious debate here. It's certainly been an internal debate. I run liebigs at an angle for convenience, but it always made sense in my head that vapor would wick against the vertical surfaces and evacuate the cooling chambers of the inner tubes most quickly in a vertical orientation, making room for more condensation as well as capturing more vaporized ethanol on its exit. Although I've also thought that in the end it probably doesn't matter much for us on a hobby level, and over-engineering substantially smooths over any theoretical speed bumps on the road to maximum efficiency. All I know is I want to finally run my 5500W element full throttle and I'm hoping this does the trick.

Do y'all use your shotguns for spirit runs or just stripping?

As far as the collection pipe is concerned, I'll probably do a funnel to a pipe and clamp it to the bench edge with a grooved piece of wood to keep it steady, but I love the idea of it running into a parrot that dangles off the bench edge! I can definitely slide in a stool for jars on spirit runs, but it would be pretty trick to have the funnel tube run right inside the neck of carboys for stripping.

[rubelstrudel]

I used to use a shotgun for refluxing but stopped doing it after I had a flooding affair and squirted hot 96% all over the walls. Shotguns are inefficient in a reflux config anyway since you can't run them counterflow.

Now i use a simple CSST tube twisted like a dimroth. Not perfect since I can't get the outgoing part straight but still more efficient than the shotgun.

Naturally I still use the shotgun for stripping and pot still.

[pope]

Since my last post I finally did my vinegar and cleaning ethanol runs, and did a stripping run. Happy to say it knocked down 5500w easily, even with the recycled coolant warming up towards the tails. Now I'm curious to wrap the kettle in reflectix and squeeze some more heat into the vapor. It's just a beautiful, beautiful rain machine with all that condensate flowing out the end. It hangs off the lyne arm and over the edge of the bench just enough to reach a funnel stuck in a jug, that'll do for now. In a spirit run I might friction fit a 2" to 1/2" fitting on the end to force a narrow stream down into the catch on my parrot and work on the floor 'til I can elevate the kettle enough to have spirit run output at bench height. I'm definitely retiring my 40" leibig condenser, this will serve well for stripping and spirit runs.

The only issue I still notice that probably can't be changed, is that when the kettle approaches vapor temps (45-55 C), the increase in pressure as the air in the keg heats up forces a small amount of vapor out the condenser due to the rapid flow of the evacuating air. But, this is a small amount of vapor, it's fores, and on an electric kettle I'm not TOO worried, though I would prefer not to breathe the stuff, even in trace amounts. I can say I had no headache this morning after stripping 8 gallons last night.

rubelstrudel: I do already have a bokakob setup for reflux, I'll keep running that. The condenser is a double helix with a cold finger, so that both the inner and outer coils flow vertically downward cold to hot, and the hot coolant is evacuated quickly through the larger diameter inner tube (cold finger). Love that setup, still need a better way to bring my condensate down from the ceiling though (currently there's a 4' drip to the funnel in the parrot). But that's a tale for another post.

Long story short I am so appreciative for the community here! Love having y'all to share successes and ask for help.

[decoy]

We have a member "Bujapet" who encapsulated his keg with narrow wood batons and squeezed foam and pu foam behind them, then placed to bands like a barrel around it, looked god dam sexy..
His build was for beer brewing but it looks good dam sexy and would look good on the keg BOP.

here is a link:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4767