2 x 40 HX

[LWTCS]

*Circulate beer through the thru tubes (easiest to clean).
*Use shell for vapor entry.

Preheat beer by using the beer as the cooling medium.

I don't know how to draw the twisted through tubes to illustrate the rifling.

[OtisT]

Hi Larry. Very interesting piece of equipment with lots of potential. I have a few questions about it. Keep in mind I’ve never run a cross flow, so forgive my ignorance in advance.

First, are those riffled tubes crimped into shape, or are they flat strips that are twisted together and welded into a pipe? If the latter, how clean/smooth are the insides of the bore? Is is sanitary?

I’m curious about the orientation of this part when in use. Since the chamber is used for vapor, I assume it can’t run verticle and needs to be slanted with one of the outputs on the lower end facing down to capture your product. (Verticle would create a big pool, as would not having the output facing down.) For vapor input, I’m guessing you would use a 90 deg elbow to get a horizontal vapor output from the still to connect to this part’s vapor input?

Re: That second side ferrule on one end. If the first ferrule is for vapor input, would the second on the same end be for a thermo port for vapor temp, or something else?

Do you happen to have a pic of what this looks like attached to a still for collection? That may help with all my orientation questions.

Another question about vapor in the chamber. Since cooling comes from the through pipes, the outer pipe will get hot from vapor. There is a potential product output would be warm to hot if you run this long enough. I have a similar issue with my smaller dimroth condenser. Does this require an additional product cooler condenser?

Last question. Will you be getting a shorter version of this?

Otis

[LWTCS]

Hi Otis,

First, are those riffled tubes crimped into shape, or are they flat strips that are twisted together and welded into a pipe? If the latter, how clean/smooth are the insides of the bore? Is is sanitary?
*They started as round and were run through a crimping jig. They have been well pickled.

I’m curious about the orientation of this part when in use. Since the chamber is used for vapor, I assume it can’t run verticle and needs to be slanted with one of the outputs on the lower end facing down to capture your product. (Verticle would create a big pool, as would not having the output facing down.) For vapor input, I’m guessing you would use a 90 deg elbow to get a horizontal vapor output from the still to connect to this part’s vapor input?
*The most optimal orientation would be horizontal with a slight pitch to insure good flow. This type of described arrangement is for stripping usually. So any pooling really is not that critical. On finished product, running the distillate through the thru tubes is best to mitigate pooling

Re: That second side ferrule on one end. If the first ferrule is for vapor input, would the second on the same end be for a thermo port for vapor temp, or something else?
*The side with two ports is a clean out. For low wines collection, the vapor runs through the jacket because alcohol vapor will not be a priority for cleaning on a strip. The beer runs through the tubes because the tubes are easiest to clean. For bottoms heat recovery, the beer again runs through the thru tubes and bottoms runs through the jacket because cleaning the jacket space is a non issue. What/when ever sanitation is an issue,,,run through the tubes.

Do you happen to have a pic of what this looks like attached to a still for collection? That may help with all my orientation questions.

*Attached.

Another question about vapor in the chamber. Since cooling comes from the through pipes, the outer pipe will get hot from vapor. There is a potential product output would be warm to hot if you run this long enough. I have a similar issue with my smaller dimroth condenser. Does this require an additional product cooler condenser?
*Really good question. Yes. An arrangement like this (on a continuous distiller for example) likely needs some help with an additional small product condenser

Last question. Will you be getting a shorter version of this?
*Probably not. This length is intended to recover as much heat as possible at the pilot/hobby scale. With the goal being to reduce the delta between beer temps and alcohol flash point.
Liquid recovery is so easy. Heat recovery is the hard part.

[The Baker]

LWTCS said, 'Another question about vapor in the chamber. Since cooling comes from the through pipes, the outer pipe will get hot from vapor. There is a potential product output would be warm to hot if you run this long enough. I have a similar issue with my smaller dimroth condenser. Does this require an additional product cooler condenser? '

I turned my Liebig condenser into a Davies condenser.

"A Davies condenser, also known as a double surface condenser, is similar to the Liebig condenser, but with three concentric (glass) tubes instead of two. The coolant circulates in both the outer jacket and the central tube. This increases the cooling surface, so that the condenser can be shorter than an equivalent Liebig condenser." Wikipedia

I have yet to get my son-in-law to join it all together; solder, weld, whatever...So of course I have not tried it out.

Anyway it was stainless, formerly used as a pre-cooler in a milking shed before the milk goes into the refrigerated vat; and I got it for free.
The outer tube was about 2" and the inner about 1 1/4 " so the inner, vapour tube was a bit big.
I stuck a 3/4" copper tube down the middle and now water will flow in the outside and the inside tube, with the vapour in the middle.

Might have some use in what you are thinking about??

Geoff

[LWTCS]

100% @ The Baker.
It wouldn't take much to insure that the discharged distillate is brought to a more preferable temperature.

I have the system in the illustration drawn with all 3 HXS being the same size. But doesn't have to be that way.
With respect to heat exchangers in general, you can never go too big lol.

[The Baker]

100% @ The Baker.
It wouldn't take much to insure that the discharged distillate is brought to a more preferable temperature.

I have the system in the illustration drawn with all 3 HXS being the same size. But doesn't have to be that way.
With respect to heat exchangers in general, you can never go too big lol.

Thanks for the kind words, LWTCS. I am a bit short on the science but it seemed logical.
A kind word from the more knowledgeable is gratefully accepted.

I'm glad you said you can never go too big.

This thing I am talking about is around five feet long! (That's how big it was when I was given it, so....)

Geoff

[LWTCS]

@The Baker,
This type of arrangement is a great solution for preheating beer on a continuous feed system. Which by the way doesn't have to be run continuously. Fact is at the commercial scale, it takes about 10 to bring a 350 gallon per hour feed rate on line and producing with a 5 minute shut down procedure.

The final product condenser on a system that is recovering this much heat could very well be one of those very cool air cooled designs on the other thread.
The air cooled rig wouldn't have to cope with all the BTUs getting tossed into a typical batch boiler.

[LWTCS]

We are recovering heat here in order to reduce the delta between ambient beer feed temps and the alcohol flash point.
Water recovery is easy. Harvesting BTUs is what keeps running costs minimized.

Stumpy's distilling lowered his operating cost by 30%. To me that is super exciting!

[The Baker]

Thanks, LW.

You said, 'Harvesting BTUs is what keeps running costs minimized. '
You have given me the starting point of some heavy thinking.

Geoff