Charring

[Grappa-Gringo]

Hi there... question pertaining to charring oak: does anyone re-use oak that has been already charred? Or do you start fresh with un charred oak? Thanks in advance
GG

[Pesty]

I save all of mine in a jar filled with some 18 yr old johnny walker platinum. It's a blend and has tails in it.. that taste never goes away but it's still a fine product.

I use fresh charred/alligator oak for aging new product be it rum or whiskey.

When I flavor, I drop a couple of the old ones in to get the flavor i want.

Every so often I'll have a sip of the jar.. it's very complex.

[contrahead]

The more times a Scotch distillery re-uses a barrel the less influence that barrel has upon aging. At some point the saturated wood of a continually used barrel will cease to be effective. Legally, it takes longer to age Scotch (3 yrs min) than it does Bourbon or American Rye (both 2 yrs min). Due to the fact mostly, that re-using a barrel is less effective than using a new one.

Some may consider new charred barrels or new charred oak sticks in a bottle; a little heavy handed. Not me. I don't anticipate waiting around for 25 or 30 years to find out how new sticks compare with used sticks either.

I think wood acts like a sponge as much as it does a flavoring and coloring agent. I don't want to put that dirty sponge back into a new bottle of white dog. Since I'm just bubbling with opinions today; I don't see what is so magical about oak either. I've been happily using twigs from local hardwood and fruit trees - that I charcoaled myself. [Get em flaming hard / then completely choke off the oxygen supply / rinse well a day later]

[skow69]

I cut/scrape/grate/sand off the old char and start over. Like the Scotch, I think there is more good stuff in the wood than you can use up in one go-round.

[cranky]

For me it depends on what I'm aging. Fresh wood tends to dominate more than I like so I usually only use used wood. If I don't have any I make it, using it in neutral or a brandy I don't care about for a while before moving it into the one I want to keep. I am trying to accent and enhance flavor, not cover it up and to me new wood and fresh char covers too much up, especially with brandy.

[rgreen2002]

I recently bought a box of cut up bourbon barrel staves. The come in about 2x2 inch blocks. I sanded a bunch down and cut them into about 1/2 inch blocks to fit into 1 gallon jugs. Then I "cranky toast" them (400 degrees for about 2 hours... I flip them @ 1 hour because it gives me something to do...) and then when I am ready to use them I propane torch them to a good alligator char. I have a gallon of Birdwatchers on them now and so far.. so good.

[Durhommer]

just charred up some white oak sticks dunked in water then put in a gallon of 140 proof gen 2 ujssm the 2 gallons i started yesterday (one on med toast american oak the other med toast french oak) are already showing color im gonna wait this char gallon out for a year so in the attic it goes

[Eire Whiskey]

I bought a bag of the charred oak from Bruhaus. I've not used them yet, and don't know how many pieces to put in a jar, say a quart jar.

[Durhommer]

if its chips id use maybe half ounce my oak sticks are five inches long and hand chopped so id say maybe 5byhalf inch. my french is chips and my american toast is a long spiral deal meant for wine i break it in chunks as to fit in my gallon jugs

[OtisT]

I bought a bag of the charred oak from Bruhaus. I've not used them yet, and don't know how many pieces to put in a jar, say a quart jar.

My answer would be “it depends”, but first I would want to know how big the chunks of wood are, what are you aging, and possibly how long can you tolerate aging?

I found that having a little head space in a jar for air is a good thing, so I would recommend you not fill those jars to the rim.

Otis

[Eire Whiskey]

I bought a bag of the charred oak from Bruhaus. I've not used them yet, and don't know how many pieces to put in a jar, say a quart jar.

My answer would be “it depends”, but first I would want to know how big the chunks of wood are, what are you aging, and possibly how long can you tolerate aging?

I found that having a little head space in a jar for air is a good thing, so I would recommend you not fill those jars to the rim.

Otis

Gotcha on filling. The oak is about the size of the pieces in the bags of oak you buy for grilling, on average 1"x1"x.25". I don't drink much, so they would likely sit for quite a while. I would be aging UJSSM first, then eventually move on to AG.

[Durhommer]

prolly three bits in that size jar

[Eire Whiskey]

prolly three bits in that size jar

Thanks!

[Durhommer]

try and get yourself a wood variety im liking to toast my own a bit i need to resupply my wood! and be sure to save your used wood it can be used a few times

[Eire Whiskey]

try and get yourself a wood variety im liking to toast my own a bit i need to resupply my wood! and be sure to save your used wood it can be used a few times

I've got a bunch of logs here I cut for grilling from trees I cut down. I don't know what kind they were though. I guess I could go out in the yard and look at the others to ID them. The pieces have been seasoning for 2-3 years now.

[Durhommer]

if you have white oak out there go for it ive only used oak personally but am looking to get some sugar maple and im thinking you only want the heart wood like the middle of the tree

[OtisT]

For that pint jar I’d only fill it to 300 ml and use two of those new blocks that size.

[cayars]

When it comes to wood and first use of it, go light. Check in 2 weeks and 1 month to see how it's doing and how the taste is developing. You can always add more sticks if needed but often times "less is more".

Keep in mind you're aging your spirits and not just trying to flavor them with wood, so head space is important in a sealed jar. Try and keep your jars to 1/2 or 2/3 full and open to breath every week or other week. Some guys will just stash them in the closet and leave them for a year but I find it's far better to breath them.

Oh something else to think about is proof you put in the jars. Higher proof like 120 will pull more of the oak/wood flavor while 80 will pull more of the sweet to vanilla flavors. So you could start at 120 proof and around 6 month in start diluting slightly each month.

[Expat]

What color are you guys seeing?

I've been pleased with the flavor and character I've managed to develop but... the color isn't what I was hoping for. Dark golden straw, but without any of red/Amber tones others seem to get. I've been using dominos made from used barrel staves, toasted 2 hours, then torch charred. Anyone seen similar?

[OtisT]

What color are you guys seeing?

I've been pleased with the flavor and character I've managed to develop but... the color isn't what I was hoping for. Dark golden straw, but without any of red/Amber tones others seem to get. I've been using dominos made from used barrel staves, toasted 2 hours, then torch charred. Anyone seen similar?

Hi expat. I can only speak from my experience with sticks and barrels I have made. I have not used wood from other sources.

A few things I see with my experiments:

Using the same wood in the same amounts in the same spirit for the same time, the higher the temp of the toast the darker the color I get, so your lighter color may come from using wood toasted at a lower temp.

A deeper toast (Toasting the same wood for a longer time) also gives a darker result.

I do my oak at a solid 400 F and call it Medium. I start not liking the smell if the toast gets up toward 440-460F, though I know some folks who like it at higher temps than this. It’s just a matter of personal tastes. The point here is that you could try toasting at a higher temp to get a darker color, but you will likely change the taste/smell profile of what you are making.

Using a toasted wood compared to the same toasted wood with a char, the color of the charred piece is darker after time and is a different dark orange shade versus a more golden color from the same wood toasted only. So if you want a darker, oranger color you may try a deeper char. By deeper I mean keeping the wood under the flame longer. I use a propane flame thrower and like a constant 25-30 blast in one place to get a medium alligator char on.

Since your wood is used, this may also account for the lighter color though that is just speculation. I have not aged product on someone else’s used wood but I would suspect that even if you re-toast and re-char the used wood, it has had many molecules leached from it already.

If the deeper char does not do the trick for you, my guess is that for you to get both the color and taste/smell you want at the same time, that you should try new wood.

Otis

[OtisT]

What color are you guys seeing?

I've been pleased with the flavor and character I've managed to develop but... the color isn't what I was hoping for. Dark golden straw, but without any of red/Amber tones others seem to get. I've been using dominos made from used barrel staves, toasted 2 hours, then torch charred. Anyone seen similar?

Expat. I thought this may help you. This thread shows some of my head to head comparisons of toasted vs toasted charred oak with rum. Look at the “8 month update” post. You can see the reddish color added by the char versus the golden color of toast only.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=72500

[Expat]

Hey Otis, Appreciated for the detail and link to your panela thread. Definitely a couple of options I'll need to experiment with. I put aside some of my last BS rum and all grain, so i'll a try a head to head comparison to my existing; new wood and some higher temp toasts, see if that makes a difference.

Also, now I want to find some applewood lol

Thanks again!