Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

[acfixer69]

You been here almost 9 years and first birdwatchers, and 30 gal for cleaning run. That should clean it. How big is the still. I must be missing something.

[MexicanCustard]

Just got a new 100L 6 plate column still for Christmas. Did a vinegar run this past weekend. 30 gal should be enough for a 15 gal sacrificial and a 15 gal first run.

Was working with a 15 gal pot hand-me-down from my grandfather before this and never ran a neutral just brandy and whiskey.

[Soarermike91]

Hi all. I have some still spirits vodka distillers yeast, would I be able to use this in this recipe or could I change anything in the recipe to use it.? Thanks

[Fivey]

Yeah, Soarermike91, shouldn't be an issue, as long as you have enough for the wash you're planning. Use it up!

[Saltbush Bill]

I have some still spirits vodka distillers yeast, would I be able to use this in this recipe or could I change anything in the recipe to use it.? Thanks

I wouldn't get to excited about the special "Vodka Yeast" its more than likely another turbo type product and probably comes with a shit load of extra nutrients already, which in turn does away with the need for tomato paste, in the Birdwatchers. I don't know that for sure ..its just an educated guess.
Its bought to you by the same people who will try to sell you this ..."Vodka Flavouring " to make your Neutral taste like Vodka.
Bit like selling Ice to Eskimos really.
https://stillspirits.com/collections/just-add-vodka

[Yummyrum]

I’m with Saltbush there . If you must use the Vodka yeast you got ,just use the sugar and water prescribed in Bird watchers and don’t worry about the rest .... or just follow birdwatches as its written .... using yeast in recipe .

[mekks082]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors, but...

On average how much heads are you guys pulling off each run?

[Saltbush Bill]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors

Let your nose answer the question for you , you will get what you get. Yeast, ferment size, temp of ferment and a gazzilon other factors will influence what you get.

[Fivey]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors, but...

On average how much heads are you guys pulling off each run?

Why do you ask? When you cut, are you getting a high proportion of product you are ranking as heads, and you want to see if that is normal? Or are you just curious as to how much hearts you will get from a wash? Something else?

[mekks082]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors, but...

On average how much heads are you guys pulling off each run?

Why do you ask? When you cut, are you getting a high proportion of product you are ranking as heads, and you want to see if that is normal? Or are you just curious as to how much hearts you will get from a wash? Something else?

I'm getting like 1qt heats, 2qt hearts and, maybe 1/4th a qt tails. That is running 7 gallons threw a reflux still. I'm pretty new to this so i'm going off taste and smell. I do feel like i'm pulling to much heads off though.

According to my SG (1.09 start, .990ish end) I should be around 13.xx% ABV (not ideal, I know).

[Fivey]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors, but...

On average how much heads are you guys pulling off each run?

Why do you ask? When you cut, are you getting a high proportion of product you are ranking as heads, and you want to see if that is normal? Or are you just curious as to how much hearts you will get from a wash? Something else?

I'm getting like 1qt heats, 2qt hearts and, maybe 1/4th a qt tails. That is running 7 gallons threw a reflux still. I'm pretty new to this so i'm going off taste and smell. I do feel like i'm pulling to much heads off though.

According to my SG (1.09 start, .990ish end) I should be around 13.xx% ABV (not ideal, I know).

Turbo yeast? I think you'll get better proportions by not pushing your wash to such high ABVs. If you are using Turbo Yeast, try something else. Why did you stop at 1/4q of tails, why didn't you take more out? What is your product ABV? Did you happen to collect ABV data for each jar as you went?

[mekks082]

I know it will very depending on a lot of factors, but...

On average how much heads are you guys pulling off each run?

Why do you ask? When you cut, are you getting a high proportion of product you are ranking as heads, and you want to see if that is normal? Or are you just curious as to how much hearts you will get from a wash? Something else?

I'm getting like 1qt heats, 2qt hearts and, maybe 1/4th a qt tails. That is running 7 gallons threw a reflux still. I'm pretty new to this so i'm going off taste and smell. I do feel like i'm pulling to much heads off though.

According to my SG (1.09 start, .990ish end) I should be around 13.xx% ABV (not ideal, I know).

Turbo yeast? I think you'll get better proportions by not pushing your wash to such high ABVs. If you are using Turbo Yeast, try something else. Why did you stop at 1/4q of tails, why didn't you take more out? What is your product ABV? Did you happen to collect ABV data for each jar as you went?

Distillers yeast, I just followed the calc that was posted for BWs. I stopped at 1/4th qt of tails because it was starting to slow down, and did not want to waste the power. I have now started to strip the runs pot still, and spirit run them in reflux at once. Did not check abv in strip runs but spirit runs come out around 190 proof.

[Fivey]

Distillers yeast, I just followed the calc that was posted for BWs. I stopped at 1/4th qt of tails because it was starting to slow down, and did not want to waste the power. I have now started to strip the runs pot still, and spirit run them in reflux at once. Did not check abv in strip runs but spirit runs come out around 190 proof.

Then I'd probably add water to the wash to reduce the SG somewhat, you'll end up with more volume but the same amount of alcohol...

[MexicanCustard]

My BWW has stalled. Started out 1.067 and got down to 1.025. PH is 3.1 so I feel sure that's the problem. Question is, if this is just a sacrificial run is it worth correcting the PH and finishing or just run it like it is?

Gotta get some oyster shells for the next one.

[Undies]

Gotta get some oyster shells for the next one.

I hear egg shells work fine as well.

[NZChris]

My BWW has stalled. Started out 1.067 and got down to 1.025. PH is 3.1 so I feel sure that's the problem. Question is, if this is just a sacrificial run is it worth correcting the PH and finishing or just run it like it is?

Gotta get some oyster shells for the next one.

Run it as it is.

I'd have to be desperately short of large whole sea shells or marble chunks before I resorted to using crushed oyster shells, and especially egg shells, although they will all work to varying degrees.

Whatever you choose to use, put it in the ferment before you have a problem, because none of them are great for fixing pH stalls after the event.

[cayars]

I'd have to be desperately short of large whole sea shells or marble chunks before I resorted to using crushed oyster shells, and especially egg shells, although they will all work to varying degrees.

Eggshell is made almost entirely of calcium carbonate crystals.

Oyster shells are composed or ninety-five percent (95%) of calcium carbonate. The remainder of the shell is made up of organic material and trace amounts of manganese, iron, aluminum, sulfate and magnesium.

Marble is a metamorphic rock derived from limestone, composed mostly of calcite (a crystalline form of calcium carbonate). The original source of the parent limestone is the seabed deposition of calcium carbonate in the form of microscopic animal skeletons or similar materials. It will be the most impure of the three.

I don't care if they are whole or crushed, but crushed will break down faster of course which is better for sugar washes that tend to pH crash.

These would all work but my preference for pH control would be (all rinsed):
1. Egg Shells
2. Oyster Shells
3. Marble

None of these solutions is good for trying to raise pH. They just help to keep from crashing (or not as bad).

Calcium hydroxide (hydrated lime, hydrated lime, caustic lime, builders' lime, slack lime, or pickling lime) would be what I would use to raise pH especially the first 12 to 24 hours of fermenting.

[thecroweater]

Lime is good if you have a pH crash / stall as a shock adjustment but something like shells or limestone are probably better for a wash that hasn't reached that critical point

[Undies]

Does the pH change much during fermentation? IE perhaps if you just measure the pH before pitching the yeast, or even better, before adding the lemons? Litmus paper is super cheap and can give a good idea where you are before you start?

[thecroweater]

Yes it does but is it likely to cause you issues ie stall? No it is not. Yeast can handle fairly acidic conditions so the pH level causing a major slow down are not or should not be a common thing but can sometimes happen. If it is a regular thing it maybe your water is higher than the average 7 (higher being a lower number say like 5) or you are starting off with too much citric or some other acid buffer or you are going a bit high with your sugar content. Yeast generally can hack 3 pH upwards (varies on the strain) which is about the pH of a normal lemon so if your pH is crashing below that you will need to correct it and may need to depending on the yeast if it approaches this level. Some guys use shells as a preventative and to keep the ferment fast and that is dandy fine but it is generally not necessary.

[pope]

+1 I think slaked lime / calcium hydroxide is the way to go to lower the acidity (raise pH) in ferments.

[NZChris]

+1 I think slaked lime / calcium hydroxide is the way to go to lower the acidity (raise pH) in ferments.

I think that having to use slaked lime is a sign that you have made a mistake and should have done better.

Also, bacteria that you don't want in your neutral ferments, but you might want to create hogo in a funky rum, thrive better at high pHs than low so, if you put a lot of effort into controlling pH in your Birdwatchers, you better be aiming for a pH that doesn't give you an unpleasant surprise.

[pope]

For birdwatchers yes, I think it’s a corrective measure! Bitdwatchers should be fine without any tweaking, but you could still try to save a batch.

[MexicanCustard]

Finished my first batch of BWW. Cut it down from 90%+ to 40%. Saved about a third from the middle of the run and ended up with 1.5 gallons. Taste is very neutral but it has a smell that isn't pleasant to the nose. I'm not sure how to define the smell other than unpleasant. Any idea where I went wrong?

[still_stirrin]

...Taste is very neutral but it has a smell that isn't pleasant to the nose. I'm not sure how to define the smell other than unpleasant. Any idea where I went wrong?

Why do you think you did something wrong?

Because you smell something you think is unpleasant? Perhaps your paradigm is wrong...not the wash or the product or your cuts. Perhaps your judgement of right or wrong is faulty. Perhaps how it should smell is exactly what you’re smelling. What is your experience with freshly distilled sugar washes (alcohol)?

And if you want help with what you’ve perceived....you must be more descriptive. You’ve not given us much to help troubleshoot your efforts.
ss

[NorthWoodsAb]

Just got a new 100L 6 plate column still for Christmas. Did a vinegar run this past weekend. 30 gal should be enough for a 15 gal sacrificial and a 15 gal first run.

Was working with a 15 gal pot hand-me-down from my grandfather before this and never ran a neutral just brandy and whiskey.

When I got my 100L rig did the same thing. Top end was new so it needed cleaning. If you're using old column with new SS boiler I wouldn't worry about it. JMO

[MexicanCustard]

Why do you think you did something wrong?

Because you smell something you think is unpleasant? Perhaps your paradigm is wrong...not the wash or the product or your cuts. Perhaps your judgement of right or wrong is faulty. Perhaps how it should smell is exactly what you’re smelling. What is your experience with freshly distilled sugar washes (alcohol)?

And if you want help with what you’ve perceived....you must be more descriptive. You’ve not given us much to help troubleshoot your efforts.
ss

You're right, this was my very first sugar wash so it might smell exactly like it's suppose too. It's also the first time I've pulled a spirit off the still at close to 95%. So my expectations were something closer to vodka. I assumed, yeah I know what that means, since so many people liked this recipe that the smell would be more pleasant. Not that it's bad but when I replaced my Tito's with it and cranberry I could still smell it when I couldn't taste it.

[Tabucowboy]

Not sure if I should put this in a separate thread and call it "Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe conversions"

But here it is:
80 liter wash
720 ml tomato paste
45 ml lemon juice
18 kg sugar
225 g yeast.
approx 64 liters water

20 liter wash
180 ml tomato paste
12 g lemon juice
18 kg sugar
225 g yeast.
approx 16 liters water


20 Gal Wash
3 c tomato paste
6 tbsp lemon juice
40 lb sugar
1 c yeast
approx 17 gal water


5 Gal Wash
3/4 c Tomato paste
1.5 tbsp lemon juice
10 lb sugar
1/4 c yeast
approx 4.25 gal water

This has worked excellent for me.

[NZChris]

Finished my first batch of BWW. Cut it down from 90%+ to 40%. Saved about a third from the middle of the run and ended up with 1.5 gallons. Taste is very neutral but it has a smell that isn't pleasant to the nose. I'm not sure how to define the smell other than unpleasant. Any idea where I went wrong?

Did you strip it first?

[Boozewaves]

Not sure if I should put this in a separate thread and call it "Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe conversions"

(the recipes in gallons + litres)

This has worked excellent for me.

I will copy and paste this , thanks , it would have taken me half an hour to convert to grams and litres even with online converters and a calculator ,

after copying and pasting and reading through it I think I've noticed an error though , 18 kg sugar for the 80 litre wash , yeah that sounds right , 4 fermenters holding 20 litres with 4.5 kg sugar each, but then you have written 18kg sugar for a 20 litre wash . but its easy enough to divide the 80 litre batch by 4 so its definitely still useful to me