the bourbon made of a proper concentrate

[VLAGAVULVIN]

howdy

dunno what's wrong with this post (and don't give a bolt about) so, just read it from its bottom to its top )))

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Okay, got somewhat 7.5l of 37%AbV low wines. And it's not bad — both in means of quantity and aroma. The fusels supposed to be low, really.

So, my question to you guys is:

1) should I proof it down to 27% AbV and go some Sco'ish classics (like easy-squeezy the 15% by volume of those 7.5 liters now) ...

2) or would I make my spirit run just from 37% AbV with all those jars... nosing... jars... nosing... jars... going nuts...



P.S. Imma use a pot still setup, definitely.

[still_stirrin]

Did you separate any of the foreshots on the strip run? If yes, then omit those from the spirit run. And add all of the collected low wines (excepting the excluded foreshots) and rerun. At 37%ABV it will start boiling a little sooner, so be prepared for it. Otherwise, you’re set. In a flavored spirit like this, I like to include the end of strip run (backend) too because it holds a lot of the flavors from the grains. You’ll appreciate whatcha’ get with ‘em included.
ss

[OtisT]

I personally would do #2, a spirit run with all your jars except for any foreshots you pulled as SS mentioned above. I would not dilute, in an effort to maintain as much grain flavor as possible in your final cut.

37% ABV low wines seems really high. Did you stop the strip run early? Start with a super high ABV beer? Do some fractioning on the first distillation?

Otis

[VLAGAVULVIN]

SS + Otis, thanks for your comments. I will not dilute it according to your and my own reasons

Yes, the foreshots went down the sink in the beg. of my stripping run. The rest parts I poured together.

Re. the strength: I had about 50cm of vertical segment with copper scrubbers in it. The beer was about 8.5% AbV. This time I stopped running at 5% (according to the parrot).

What I did like working with this concentrate: got 370ml of spirits from a kilo. And my "mashing" took about 20 minutes, including the concentrate pre-heat (as it was too thick to get outta the package at room temp.).

Some more questions: do you think I have to run it drop-by-drop all my run long? And the heads... they will separate at 37% not so effectively as at 27%, right? I run the risk of smearing them all over my product. I have some idea, though

[OtisT]

In my personal experience, I seem to get better separation on a spirit run the slower I go. I also find that with smaller batches, I need to use less power to achieve the same level of separation that I get on larger runs. It is almost like a spirit run takes a similar amount of time regardless of the charge size (within reason). You definitely can’t expect a similar production rate on a small charge that you expect on a large charge. This is just my personal observation.

For me doing a 7.5 liter charge spirit run I would be looking for a production rate that is fast drops. That is after I pull foreshots at a slow drop rate. The fast drops are around 500 watts on my mini pot still.

Otis

[Saltbush Bill]

More Turbo Yeast?

[Twisted Brick]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to note your SG and FG of these concentrates?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Just out of curiosity, did you happen to note your SG and FG of these concentrates?

SG=1.08 (19.3% of solids content by hydrometer)... so, I should get 10...10.25% of spirits in my beer

[VLAGAVULVIN]

OK / I'm close to its finish and everything was going almost perfectly. I have all logs (100ml jars) but still have no time to post them here... any questions? I'm beating about the nearby and ready to answer...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Hey guys, I'd be grateful for your advice here again...

At the pic as above you can see a vertical segment (stuffed with copper scrubbers) and a funny bladder between segment and condenser. The bladder was empty (no scrubbers or liquid inside / I was constantly removing any flegma out of it). It's more or less like the classics' purifier (and not thumper, of course). These factors (vertical + empty chamber) both made my product very "strong": 89% AbV in heads and furthermore 87% to 69.5% at hearts. And it may sound probably strange but I bet my bottom rouble that I can feel a wet cardboard starting with 79% AbV (jar #21 of 27 total). Plus all that taste of burnt matches and bitterness, you know...

So, my question is: how deep could I dive down to the cardboard jars? I'm not greedy about the total yield and I'm planning to age my bourbon in a glass with charred oak sticks for 3-6 months only. I could even nuke some of the cardboard hints separately in my MWO... but,,, is it worth to do so at all?

[still_stirrin]

And it may sound probably strange but I bet my bottom rouble that I can feel a wet cardboard starting with 79% AbV (jar #21 of 27 total).<— what do you get out of the spout after jar #27? Is it a fast declining proof and sweet water?

Plus all that taste of burnt matches and bitterness, you know...<— this sounds like sulfur to me. I believe you need more copper in your system...unless you like the stinky liquor.

So, my question is: how deep could I dive down to the cardboard jars? I'm not greedy about the total yield and I'm planning to age my bourbon in a glass with charred oak sticks for 3-6 months only. I could even nuke some of the cardboard hints separately in my MWO... but,,, is it worth to do so at all?

I like to collect until the spirit out of the spout falls to 15-20%ABV. I usually collect the very back end in small jars so I can include a little if I like it, or exclude a little if I don’t. If my keeper selection ends earlier, then I can always add these late tails to the feints. But with a rum, and to some degree in a whiskey, you’ll get a lot of flavor in the later jars and that flavor will come out nicely as you age your spirit.

I can’t tell you what you’d like...but I can tell you what I like to do. You’ve got to develop your preferred protocol by experience.
ss

[VLAGAVULVIN]

SS, thanks for your feedback!

>> what do you get out of the spout after jar #27? Is it a fast declining proof and sweet water?

Nope. I just turned the heat higher to get the feints. There were 3 jars more @ 65-60% but I did not care about anymore. And then the proof started to fall down quickly. Thus, I got 2 liters more on full swing from 65 to 5% and then stopped.

NB: I did not mix them with my heads yet so, I could re-run them without a vertical at all... but I think there's nothing to catch but wet dog. Also I guess you meant some fatty acids at 15-20AbV, did you? I got used to catch them from the late purifier. And there's no cardboard odor at all in them. By the way, its bottom's strength is normally 10-15% less than from the spout.


>> this sounds like sulfur to me. I believe you need more copper in your system...unless you like the stinky liquor.

Maybe, you are right. But the scrubbers were clean after the run. And the jars from 5 to 20 are really good...

I am not arguing, I'm "reasoning"... Feel free to push my mind into the right way, if any...

[OtisT]

And it may sound probably strange but I bet my bottom rouble that I can feel a wet cardboard starting with 79% AbV (jar #21 of 27 total). Plus all that taste of burnt matches and bitterness, you know...

So, my question is: how deep could I dive down to the cardboard jars? I'm not greedy about the total yield and I'm planning to age my bourbon in a glass with charred oak sticks for 3-6 months only. I could even nuke some of the cardboard hints separately in my MWO... but,,, is it worth to do so at all?

As was said above, you need to develop your own method and preference for how much tails to include. Record what your choice is and the cut point selection method you used, then 6 months later when you taste the results you may know how you did, and what adjustments to make next time. I personally don’t think you can do any of that by ABV numbers. I choose my cut point by taste.

Because you want to enjoy this after a only a few months, you will need a more conservative cut.

Here is my method as an example:

I find the first jar where I can smell a hint of tails and I start from there. I taste my way from there toward the end, rinsing my mount out with water between each sample. (Diluted samples). The taste becomes more and more bitter as I go down the line. Early on, that bitter taste goes away quickly. When that bitter taste lingers on my tongue a noticeable amount of time, that jar and every jar after it is cut out. Using this cut point I find that any new make taste/smell goes away by about 6 months.

This is just my preference, and some folks may like more or less tails. Doing cuts this way, I am usually keeping 45%-55% of my total yield.

Otis

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Thank you guys, your feedbacks were helpful

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Okay, now I'm more or less comfortable with my cuts... but: two char, or not two char?

I have a rather good birch charcoal. But I see no reason to use it now. Just could burn my sticks a bit deeper...

The Heritage? Well: how much, how long, at what strength? Partially (only jars being closer to tails) or all of "the product jars"?

Suggestions, suggestions...

[HDNB]

i like the alligator char. it deepens the color gives more caramel and also cleans up overages on tails, if you put too much in or smeared a bunch.

on your last topic, how much tails? you cannot age out tails in my experience, so less is more.

[cayars]

Char level #3 is most prevalent in Bourbon making with a few distilleries using #4. I like HDNB prefer more char. I try to model after spirits I like a lot and one of my favorite bourbons is Wild Turkey 101 and they use #4 so that was good enough for me.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Okay, will try to make some croc's skin then...

on your last topic, how much tails? you cannot age out tails in my experience, so less is more.

If I got you right... of my 27*100ml the first 4 jars are definitely heads. I'd say, ## 3 and 4 are "head&shoulders" but I have no cask or intention to age them by years so, let'em be feints. As per tails: ## 25 and 27 are too funky. But surprisingly, I'd like to get 1/2 of my #26 to the hearts. Actually, I found the begs of tails starting from my # 20. Nevertheless, 20 to 24 are not bad at all. So anyhow, gonna take 20 jars of 27. Do you consider my cuts too wide now? It's not late to improve... sorted by 2 groups but did not pour together...

[VLAGAVULVIN]

one of my favorite bourbons is Wild Turkey 101 and they use #4 so that was good enough

How long do they age their turkey? That's the question. I wanna age my own till July the latest. Gonna cut out all burnt matches (tails-hinted) and wouldn't like to catch it back / brought by the overburnt tree...

[cayars]

Normally, Years
Straight bourbon must be aged at least two years.
Bottled-in-bond bourbon must be distilled by the same master distiller, in the same distilling season, at the same distillery, aged at least four years in a federally bonded warehouse, and bottled at 100 proof.
Anything over 4 years does not need an age statement but usually will to show how old the youngest spirit is. The age statement must always reflect the youngest spirit in the blend (if any).

Any bourbon aged under 4 years must have an age statement on the bottle.

Here are other requirements for Bourbon according to the TTB.
Bourbon must be made in the USA.
Bourbon must be made from a grain mixture using at least 51% corn and only uses grains (ie no sugar).
Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.
Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
Bourbon has to be bottled at a minimum of 40% ABV.

Also worth knowing any Bourbon that gets finished in a cask other than new charred oak is no longer Bourbon!

With that said around here we don't care what country it was made in, if you put your spirits in a barrel or glass jar with new charred oak in it, or how long your age it for. But those are the "legal" definitions of Bourbon.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Got some "credible" info about that LME concentrated wort's contents / will leave it here:
* rye (unmalted) = 28%
* barley malt = 21%
* corn (unmalted) = 51%

[Durhommer]

Concentrate makes a good drink I have a bunch I must of hid from myself was getting my pole saw out and bam 10 cans on the shelf so guess I wasn't out of fermentable now I've got plenty 200 corn 50 2 row 40 blended malt and now an essential job so no time...damn my luck

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Concentrate makes a good drink

It does. This time I have not spoiled anything yet so, it does. Knock-knock-knock on my wooden head

[Durhommer]

I like using sparkling amber breiss

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I like using sparkling amber breiss

What's the sparkling amber breiss is?

[The Baker]

On the interweb.

'Briess CBW Sparkling Amber DME (dry malt extract) is 100% pure malted barley extract made from a blend of 100% malt and water. Use in the production of Pale Ales, Red and Amber Ales, Munich Style Beers, Bock and Oktoberfest Beers, Scottish Ales, and darker beers including Stouts and Porters.

CBW brewer's grade malt extracts are unhopped and nondiastatic for flexible, creative brewing.'

Geoff

[Durhommer]

That's why I like breiss brand it's good quality

[VLAGAVULVIN]

But it's for brewing, right? I mean it's rich in dextrines which are almost useless for distillates.

All my extracts had the maltose temp stop at 62-65C, and not at 67-69C. They seem too dry for beer (if not to use lactose or special malts or oats as additives) but they make up to 350ml of dehydrated alco from a kilo! And they were priced a week ago as about USD 1.3 per kg only. The dream of a crafter, ehm?

[Durhommer]

Lucky you