Oaking question

[Whiskey11]

I see that is standard to oak at 120 proof or so. Then, the oaked product is bottled at some point and cut to 80 proof. Does the dilution when bringing down to 80 proof affect the color at all?

[Twisted Brick]

I see that is standard to oak at 120 proof or so. Then, the oaked product is bottled at some point and cut to 80 proof. Does the dilution when bringing down to 80 proof affect the color at all?

Yes.

Since everyone's circumstances are different, YMMV. Like a lot of things here, its trial and error.

[still_stirrin]

...Does the dilution when bringing down to 80 proof affect the color at all?...

Of course it will.

I suggest tempering only to 90 proof (45%ABV) instead to preserve a little more color AND flavor. If you did your cuts properly, you’ll like a 90 proof bottle better than 80 proof....I’m betting.
ss

[still_stirrin]

I see that is standard to oak at 120 proof or so...

Many of the commercial producers put their spirits in cask at 60 to 65%ABV. And a few producers age at higher proof...up to 70%ABV. But be forewarned that aging at different %ABV will affect the contributions of the wood and char to the spirit. What I’ve noted is that a lower proof results in a sweeter (vanilla & caramel) spirit out of the cask, while a higher proof will extract more of the dryer (oak tanin) qualities.

I like to put my bourbons in the cask at 125 to 130 proof.
ss

[Whiskey11]

I see that is standard to oak at 120 proof or so...

Many of the commercial producers put their spirits in cask at 60 to 65%ABV. And a few producers age at higher proof...up to 70%ABV. But be forewarned that aging at different %ABV will affect the contributions of the wood and char to the spirit. What I’ve noted is that a lower proof results in a sweeter (vanilla & caramel) spirit out of the cask, while a higher proof will extract more of the dryer (oak tanin) qualities.

I like to put my bourbons in the cask at 125 to 130 proof.
ss

What proof would give the best vanilla/caramel? 120 about?

[OtisT]

Whiskey11,
My understanding of this subject (based on my reading here on HD) is that Vanilla and Carmel notes are created in oak with proper toasting at specific temperatures. So, the first part to getting a strong vanilla taste in your whiskey would be to use properly toasted wood with lots of vanilla in it.

Assuming you have vanilla in your oak to extract, I have read that some feel they get a stronger vanilla profile from lower ABVs in the barrel because vanilla in the wood comes out better with more water, and some other chemicals that are not water soluble won’t be as prominent due to the lower ABV. I have not done any testing to prove this out, I’ve only read about this.

If the wood has vanilla in it, I think you will notice it regardless of your aging ABV. Vanilla is something everyone recognizes so it’s easy to detect it in your spirit if it exists.

Otis

[Twisted Brick]

Whiskey11,
My understanding of this subject (based on my reading here on HD) is that Vanilla and Carmel notes are created in oak with proper toasting at specific temperatures. So, the first part to getting a strong vanilla taste in your whiskey would be to use properly toasted wood with lots of vanilla in it.

Assuming you have vanilla in your oak to extract, I have read that some feel they get a stronger vanilla profile from lower ABVs in the barrel because vanilla in the wood comes out better with more water, and some other chemicals that are not water soluble won’t be as prominent due to the lower ABV. I have not done any testing to prove this out, I’ve only read about this.

If the wood has vanilla in it, I think you will notice it regardless of your aging ABV. Vanilla is something everyone recognizes so it’s easy to detect it in your spirit if it exists.

Otis

+1

Nerdy Whisky - Barrel Entry Proof

The Secret Science of Proof and Barrels

I haven't been distilling/aging whiskey long enough to conduct trials, but adding water after aging drastically reduces the hard-earned deep, rich flavor gained on oak. This diluted flavor heavily contributes to one (me) preferring to drink one's spirits closer to barrel strength. I think I will age the current batch of bourbon I'm working on at two different entry proofs and blend them to see what goes.

[Whiskey11]

Down here in south TX, we don’t have white oak. Not that I know of anyway. We do have plenty of live oak though which is a member of the white oak family. I have a bunch of prime stuff that is well seasoned that I use for BBQing. I’m going to try a test run of this wood and give it a taste after a couple months to get an idea of what it has to offer. It makes some beautiful brisket, so maybe it will give the same to the bourbon.

[Corsaire]

You can get ex whisky barrels dominoes for smoking, sometimes half barrel planters in garden shops even here in Europe, so I bet they're even more common in the States.

Regarding abv, I've read about craft distillers aging their product at the legal minimum abv (I think 55%?) because they were after specific flavors.

I usually make Scotch style whisky and age at 60-65%.

A period of rest after proofing down is useful, to let the flavors blend better.

Diluting will dilute color, you can do as the big boys do and add caramel coloring. I just take it for what it is, color doesn't matter to me, flavor does.

[Irishgnome]

Here are a few images & Notes that I use when toast & char my oak.
Toast Levels:

Profile 1: Aromatics of fresh baked bread and butterscotch with white pepper and sweet fresh oak flavors.
Profile 2: Complex mid-palate filler and overall lifting. Fresh oak, clove and sweet toasted coconut, almonds, toasty nutmeg, creamy textures.
Profile 3: Deep amplification of wine characteristics, with a broad support of mouth-feel volume and length.
Profile 4: Complex baking spices. Preserves fruit while rounding the finish with refined balance.
Profile 5: Smokey espresso, spicy charred meats.
From the wiki pages:

oak_aromatoast.gif (8 KiB) Viewed 2242 times

Char Levels:

Cheers
Irish

[Irishgnome]

http://whiskyscience.blogspot.com/2011/ ... s.html?m=1

Good Read.

I think I got this from someone on here.

[Whiskey11]

Well I cut some live oak chunks today. I’m going to medium toast them on the BBQ pit this weekend. This stuff is hard as hell, gave the carbide blade a workout.

[Irishgnome]

Well I cut some live oak chunks today. I’m going to medium toast them on the BBQ pit this weekend. This stuff is hard as hell, gave the carbide blade a workout.

Be sure to use weathered white oak. Should sit outside in the elements for 2+ years.
I rotate my stack about every two months.

Just in case you didn't know.

Cheers
Irish

[Irishgnome]

Should have added that heart wood is preferred.

[Whiskey11]

This is all live oak, and I chose only the densest parts of the heartwood. It's very well seasoned, I use this wood for smoking meat and I'm a snob when it comes to wood for that. I'm sipping on some stuff that has aged a whole week (lol) on the live oak and I think it's mighty nice. I'm going to go with it.

[Irishgnome]

Set that oak outside and let it weather. If spirits sit too long in fresh oak, it will start to pull a lot of the nasty stuff out of the wood.
Pick up some Jack Daniels chips, or a used barrel planter from a hardware store and age your spirits with that wood for now. Once your wood is aged and weathered, then toss it in your spirit.
I'd hate to see you toss out some of your spirit because it turns nasty from the new oak.

Just my two cents.

Cheers
Irish

[Whiskey11]

This oak is 3 years seasoned. "Live Oak" is a species of oak in the white oak family. Maybe I should have clarified haha

[Whiskey11]

Southern Live Oak tree