I live in the sierra of Ecuador (temp 55-85F/13-30C) and have been brewing and distilling for about 30 years. Problem is, oak doesn't grow here and is essentially unheard of (occasionally I'll find someone who knows that it's what they make barrels out of in other countries but they've never seen it). I'm looking for suggestions on tropical/subtropical woods that can be used in place of oak for brandies and whiskies (that's pretty much all I distill). I'll also document anything I discover about the woods here in this thread. Speaking of which:
Amarillo/Licaria triandra/Licaria cannella: Nope. This has a very strange and strong flavor/smell. Tried it in some orange brandy. It's drinkable, but barely.
Almendro/Swietenia macrophylla: Highly unlikely. It's (real) mahogany. Bought it because it was called almendro - almond. Toasted some and it has a distinctive smell that I don't think would translate to a good flavor.
Acacia/?: Maybe. Not sure what the specific species is, but it's everywhere like a f'n weed. Just toasted some a few days ago and smell is a lot more promising. Read some threads here mentioning it. Will update.
Also, will probably try some lemon, orange/citrus woods as I have quite a number on my property so I just need to wait until a branch falls. Same with mango. Unfortunately, my trees are only about 5 years old and they aren't that big yet. Plus no one is crazy enough to cut down their fruit trees here. Not sure on tree tomato/tamarillo/tomate de arbol, but I had a tree fall so may at least toast a bit to test the smell. Also have some avocado trees, but no idea on those. My biggest problem is figuring out the types of wood available since none of the carpenters or sawmills use "normal"/specific names, instead preferring names like "yellow" and "almond" - presumably because the wood is yellow or almond colored.
Coyote wrote:Look at shipping pallets. In the USA about 1/2 of everything on a pallet is on a white Oak pallet.
Strip em down toast them up
Good luck
Coyote
In Australia our chep pallets are made of shit, I would hate to think people would be using them to age alcohol.
The way I see it is whiskey is not that hard to make and the most important part of the development process is using a good quality cask, I think of the spirit as my baby and the cask is its mother. The mother nurses and raises her baby for many years before the bung is pulled and the child is born.....
A good quality Cask is everything in the whiskey and rum world in my opinion.
I have not used tropical hard woods for aging. I WAS a fine wood worker in Hawaii and the sawdust from most tropical hardwoods had a very negative effect on me. Just sayin'... be careful.
anyway i know any woods that are real sappy and oily(commonly soft woods IIRC) are not good for aging either, so keep that in mind.
i have no problem mailing you oak, especially if theres a trade involved but either way. i can wrap a board in brown paper easily and bring it to the post office and mail it international. im sure customs would be entertained by the declaration of 1x4x16 white oak plank. but really just DM.
not that im against the pioneering of new woods and using what you have, but if you have a serious amount of spirit and dont want to wait for experiments to pan out, i got ya.
<no stopping to corner anytime [] no parking passenger zone>
When people tell me I'll regret that in the morning, I sleep till noon.
Thanks for suggestions and offers. Have family visiting in a few months and they're bringing some seasoned oak so I'll be ok eventually. Only have 40L or so of whisky that needs flavoring presently (ran out of storage containers) and turned my orange brandy into a pretty decent grand marnier clone so that's magically disappeared
As for progress on my testing, the acacia wood was usable but has a different flavor... worked well for whisky when mixed into an old fashioned but just didn't satisfy me for straight-up or on-the-rocks sipping and was weird in whisky sours. Since those are the only four ways I enjoy whisky, it was only 25% successful. Looks like there really isn't anything to be done other than have friends or relatives bring in oak.
Oh, and for the person who suggested shipping: The problem here is no addresses or mail delivery, so unless something is shipped privately, I can't receive it. And, since the only private international shipping service here is DHL (which charges over a hundred dollars just to ship an envelope), I try to avoid ordering or receiving any shipments unless it's stuff from China where the hundreds of dollars in shipping is offset by the savings in buying from China (only done that once thus far).
OtisT wrote:What kind of Nut trees do you have? I hear nut trees can be good for aging, though it’s still not oak.
Good luck. Otis
Thanks... And your guess is as good as mine. Was planted by the previous property owner and given to him by a neighbor who died last year, so can't ask him either. If anyone sees the photo below (assuming the embed works) and knows what it is, please enlighten me. I'm hoping I'll know once it's harvest time (unless it's nut that doesn't exist in N. America).
Also, you may notice the leafcutter ants in the photo... I hate those bastards so much. So so much.
There has to be some downside to living in a remote tropical paradise!
That pic looks like some type of prunus to me.
I have worked in winemaking with citrus wood extracted tannins : adds zippyness, not very whiskey-like but might as well experiment.
I have also worked with acacia and I am not a big fan, but it is definitely used for cooperage.
What needs to be remembered is that wood tipycally needs a few years of air drying before before charred and soaked or else you will encounter green and resinous flavours that you don't want.
Starting out with an Essential Pro Series II - 8 Gal Kettle
In Ancient India, Acacia was used (babool). So you can use it. Google it. The ancients were not only were distilling, malting but aging too. I’m trying to rediscover some of those ancient recipes. There’s another Acacia Catechu (Khair) which is used as edible stuff as a paste and used as dye, it gives red copper kind of colour.
Mango is definitely fine to use, there are plenty of trees whose bark and wood are used in traditional medicine of Ayurveda, some of them have unique sweetness and aromas. Just thinking, maybe sandalwood could be used too. I need to try after lockdown is over.
I would urge you to eBay missouri oak. You can typically request folks to ensure a hearts cut off the oak instead of sapwood. Last I bought some was when you originally posted. It was $20 for a cubic foot with cheapo shipping.
It is likely best to attempt to contact them and request shipping. Or, you can dm me and I'll go pick up a used half barrel from home depot and send you a bunch of staves for the original cost of the barrel plus shipping
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
I'd be interested to see some of the trees from Paraguay. They have Quebracho which is a super dense tree, one of the few that sinks in water.
There is also palo santo is an interesting one, but way to much oil in it. It actually bubbles as it burns (its used to make perfume).
Maybe next trim to Paraguay I'll bring back some quebracho (red and white) and do some experiments.
---
I have a 50L pot still with dual Liebig condenser.
I typically make Whisky, grappa, and brandy.
I'd outright avoid all members of the acacia family, until or unless I had researched a particular sample, carefully. Acacia is a big, diverse family, and several various members carry either dangerous toxins or psychoactive alkaloids (or both), in their leaves, stems, seed pods and flowers.
At least 3 members of the family produce DMT (dimethyltryptamine), which is something most people would wish to avoid. By almost all accounts, DMT causes the most colorful psychedelic visual hallucinations of any 'psychedelic drug'. But the even more powerful Ayahuasca (eye-a-waska) which has been giving shamans hallucinations and freaking out others; is actually made with DMT plus some form of harmala alkaloid.
(The harmala alkaloid is a MAOI (Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor) which prevents the (orally ingested) DMT from breaking down in the digestive tract – before it reaches the bloodstream).
I get the impression that acacia trees are a little like toadstools (mushrooms). Some are edible, others are not.
antialiased wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:23 pm
If anyone sees the photo below .
Don't know fer sure, but that looks suspiciously like a “Boxfruit” tree.
The Barringtonia asiatica is called the 'fish poison tree' throughout both the Indian and Pacific oceans and is probably the best known example of a saponin-piscicide. All parts of the tree are poisonous but only the seeds or bark are crushed and used on fish.
SHIT. I just responded to a thread that was 4 years old!
@ GreenEnvy22
Red quebracho bark is very rich in tannin. Recently, the unrelated Quebracho-blanco tree was determined to have six identifiable alkaloids, the most prominent being yohimbine (an aphrodisiac). Soaking your hooch in that wood might - give you a woody.
