UK Still Builder/Supplier

[Æther]

Hey guys

So currently my setup is the basic T500 all steel model. I’ve primarily run a sugar wash thru on the odd occasion over the last few years and some homebrew wine achieving a relatively decent neutral spirit (for sure it’s not what it could be!)

Now I have the time, and slowly getting the resources together to start taking this more seriously. I still want to produce some neutral spirit for macerations and such, but I would like to go pot mode too, and start coaxing out some more flavour from AG brews etc.

I am looking to buy a new still from a UK supplier, ideally one that can switch from pot/reflux. I don’t really have the time or skills to be thinking about a build at this point, I also don’t want some crap knockoff from alibaba or ebay.

If you really believe it’s either pot OR reflux and never a cross, then I’m happy to hear your thoughts and take that on board. I can’t afford both.

I’m sure I can mod the T500 to make some improvements, and I’m going to browse this forum for that (replacing plastic where I can etc) but for now, I’m looking for recommended models or suppliers that fit these needs while I’m modding, however, I’m struggling to find UK specifics in the forums that doesn’t end in building.

Budget £500-600
Reflux/Pot
Neutral/AG/Vodka/Rum/Whiskey

Much appreciated.

[SassyFrass]

You should take a look at some of the CCVM/pot still modular build threads. I think that may be what you are looking for.
You dont really have to build it. Its more of a buy the parts and assemble them in the correct configuration for your application.
There are a lot of folks that have assembled these systems on the construction site of HD to help others out.
Might be something you want to look at.
SF

[Æther]

Oh sweet! Cheers, Sass. I hadn’t considered that as an option. That is totally doable. I’ll give that a read.

[SassyFrass]

Yep, i heard someone refer to it as legos for adults.[emoji16]
I'm assuming you'll be able to source all the parts in the UK, but I really dont know. I'm across the pond.
I planning on doing a CCVM system this spring/summer.
Good luck
SF

[Boozewaves]

You should take a look at some of the CCVM/pot still modular build threads. I think that may be what you are looking for.
You dont really have to build it. Its more of a buy the parts and assemble them in the correct configuration for your application.
There are a lot of folks that have assembled these systems on the construction site of HD to help others out.
Might be something you want to look at.
SF

This is what I did and it works well . I have a potstill / ccvm combo all put together with off the shelf pieces and a keg from freecycle

the 2 companies I used (i'm in UK too) are sanitary steel ltd , they have an ebay store but you will get a better deal if you send an email with a list of the parts you want and ask for a quote with delivery to your address . let me know if you want their email address

in late 2019 I decided to make a 2.5 inch ccvm and buying from that company was cheaper than buying pieces from different Chinese ebay sellers and I didn't have to wait months for delivery .

then there's distilling uk . its a more expensive website but they have a good selection of pieces that sanitary steel does not have such as a 2 inch to 2.5 inch adapter and they have the ptfe gaskets you will need to go between the pieces (don't use silicone gaskets) . they also sell CSST tubing which can be used for condensers and is much easier to shape than copper pipe , it can be bought any sized length . also if you want to add a drain or fill hole they sell weldless bulkhead ferrules

specialist aggregates website sell lava rock to use for packing , it needs breaking up after you buy it and if you need stainless steel scrubbies asda supermarket has those (boil them first)

here is a thread to give you an idea of how easy it is to use triclamp pieces https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 17&t=62101

[Æther]

Boozewave, this sounds good!

I’m thinking maybe the T500 boiler is probably, and unfortunately, the better part of the still. I’m really not keen on the plastic on this condenser, makes me edgy.

Maybe a good next step could be to fit a condenser such as the one in the mechano thread? I like the electric operation of this boiler, it’s quite practical, I’m not quite in the realm of adding voltage control yet, but we’ll see.

For now I’m hoping a condenser such as the one in that thread can easily be fitted to the T500 boiler via clamps/gaskets and such? Ideally no soldering.

Cheers

[Æther]

Also, ball park figure on that kinda rig?

[jimsgins]

I have found still dragon in europe to be really good (they are also modular) but I'm not sure if brexit will impact them much

[Æther]

Cheers Jim, StillDragon also looks pretty good.

Have contacted Distilling UK regarding parts so will see what they come back with. If I can easily retro fit a new condenser to the T500 boiler, I’ll be pretty happy.

[Æther]

Ok, so for the most part it looks like replacing the T500 condenser entirely is fairly straight forward with the tri-clamp system.

Referring to DIstillingUK, I have found the appropriate adapter for the T500 boiler lid. I'm thinking a couple of the 500mm spool tubes for the reflux column, and it looks like the swan neck condenser should be relatively easy to connect to the spool tubes.

EDIT

I'm now thinking I need a dephlagmator at the top of the spool tubes? like this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clamp-1-5-St ... 4644271755

In which case is the swan neck condenser necessary, as in do I really need two areas where coolant flow in and out, or, what would replace the T500 product condenser in this setup?

Thanks

[Æther]

Ok, I think I have this sussed.

Please correct me if I have missed something here.

T500 boiler
50mm triclamp adapter for boiler lid
2x 500mm x50mm spool tubes
Dephlagmator
Leibig
Triclamps where necessary

Design attached

A couple of things regarding connections. I thought reflux to leibig spirit-out, and leibig coolant to dephlagmator in, could be connected by a flexi steel shower hose to avoid plastic but i think i may still need some plastic adapters to fit on to the connectors.

I’m not sure how to support the leibig. I was thinking some tricamps on the spool tube somehow fixed to smaller clamps on the leibig. Like a dual clamp with two sizes?

[Alcophile]

I'd love an email address or link if possible, as I find a of "not-quite-matches" in Google search.
Thanks

sanitary steel ltd , they have an ebay store but you will get a better deal if you send an email with a list of the parts you want and ask for a quote with delivery to your address . let me know if you want their email address

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 17&t=62101

[The Baker]

Hi.
'I’m not sure how to support the Liebig.'

Separate brace or support.
A piece of cord from something suitable?
Rafter, say.

Geoff

[Yummyrum]

That coil is so big , I think it will almost be impossible to use it as a Deflagmator . Also , using the 9mm spigot is not a good idea as it is too small to safely use as a vapour line .
Have you looked at CCVM still . You use that coil but you use a Tee module . You connect your liebig to the the Tee branch . The coil is lifted up or down Past the Tee port to control the amount of reflux .
You can also remove the coil , cap the top and you have a Pot still

Check out Kimbodious still
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 0#p7443075

[Boozewaves]

F6972EA4-975C-41EB-9EDF-CB94947E384A.pngOk, I think I have this sussed.

Please correct me if I have missed something here.

T500 boiler
50mm triclamp adapter for boiler lid
2x 500mm x50mm spool tubes
Dephlagmator
Leibig
Triclamps where necessary

Design attached

A couple of things regarding connections. I thought reflux to leibig spirit-out, and leibig coolant to dephlagmator in, could be connected by a flexi steel shower hose to avoid plastic but i think i may still need some plastic adapters to fit on to the connectors.

I’m not sure how to support the leibig. I was thinking some tricamps on the spool tube somehow fixed to smaller clamps on the leibig. Like a dual clamp with two sizes?

O.k that dephlegmator linked looks expensive , I know you mentioned a budget of £500 but don't order it just yet as i'm sure there could be a cheaper way . here are some observations and ideas I have come up with

a 1.5 inch reflux column is sure to be slow . 2 inch would be better however more pipe means more weight and i'm not sure if the t500's lid can support a larger diameter column , the column can be supported so it won't topple over with a frame but is the lid strong enough to not buckle? . using lava rocks to pack would be more weight as well even though they are lighter than normal gravel . copper wool or stainless scrubbies would be lighter . as Geoff mentioned supporting the weight from above would help

if you are using a weldless bulkhead ferrule to attach a triclamp-able base to the column measure the hole and compare to the size of the piece you will be getting make sure the piece will not be too loose in the hole as it could be a weak spot for vapours to escape , PTFE plumbers tape can help make up a small gap , there will be a rubber O - ring , wrap this with ptfe tape too . if the hole is too small it could be made bigger with a metal burr in a drill by going around the hole a few times

I think a CCVM style column on top of the t500 boiler is a good idea as the expensive dephlegmator would not be needed , you can make your own reflux condenser and product condenser from the corrugated stainless steel tubing as its easy to work with and it can be unwound and re-formed if you make a mistake . its easy to attach a hosepipe to the tubing you just dip the end of the hose in boiling water to make it supple and then stretch it ideally with car tubing pliers , something like this . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-inch-plier ... Vi9f7Zdd
then use jubilee clips to clamp the hose to the metal hose . the alcohol vapours should be nowhere near the plastic hose and only water travels through them so its safe

it is a simple still design and means you would not need to buy a liebig as well .

after looking at videos of a t500 still though i'm pretty sure you could make it perfectly safe to use by wrapping ptfe tape around the silicone gasket that is in the lid and replacing the top plastic hose and output hose with the CSST tubing clamped in place with jubilee clips , maybe some PTFE tape around the existing piece the plastic hose goes onto to make sure its a good fit

taller column = better neutral though . as still stirring said to me when I first planned my still , make it 20:1 height:diameter so 2 inch column would be 40 inches tall before the tee

[Æther]

Thanks for the detailed responses guys, really appreciate it.

The Liebig support problem I think I have resolved using 2 prong vinyl lab clamps such as:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Labs-Burette ... 3731264152

I actually have these for a 2L lab still and they are really sturdy.

That coil is pretty ridiculous, it's huge, however I'm not sure on the science behind why that is an issue and nothing I can see in my books on distilling that refer to length of the dephlagmator. I assume it's either making a column this size too cold to operate efficiently, or it's large enough to impede vapour flow? Yeah, I checked out CCVM, looks straight forward, the top of the T section is open and the coil can be adjusted. If I can use the same coil on CCVM, why is it a problem on the setup I suggested? Btw, I noticed that coil is 1.5", the spools I looked at are 2", I was thinking a reducer would be ok just for the top spool to dephlag?

Yummy, you mention the 9mm spigot being too small, it's considerably larger than the output of the T500 (which probably isn't saying a lot), and I know this column is a tad taller, is the output size related to column length or diameter? And yes, pot/reflux is the plan!

Booze, you may well be right about the weight, I'll have to investigate fully. The T500 packed with saddles is pretty weighty but I've just ordered copper mesh and plan to use that in future so it should save a fair bit of weight. But proper measurements required for sure. I guess I could go 800mm instead of a meter. Current condenser is 600mm.

Thanks again, guys. I'll keep researching but the input is super useful.

[Yummyrum]

That coil is pretty ridiculous, it's huge, however I'm not sure on the science behind why that is an issue

I’m just thinking that you will need to have super fine control over coolant flow because it is such a large coil . The coils in a T500 are relatively small in comparison and folk still have problems with them .
Shady made a coil deflag in his 4” and it was barely a few turns and not very long at all .
Similarly other coils used as deflags in other stills in the construction area have only needed small coils to be effective .
Mindyou , the coil you are looking at is Stainless not copper so perhaps the poor heat conductivity will make it less effective

Yummy, you mention the 9mm spigot being too small, it's considerably larger than the output of the T500

That spigot is intended to be a vent when its used as a PC in a VM or LM .
At HD we recommend 1/2” to be the minimum size that vapour lines should be to so that in the case of a Puke or foam up , there is minimal chance of a blockage and potential for explosion .

I can’t say I agree with T500 using such a small size . Perhaps in thier world only turbo yeast sugar washes will ever be run in one .

In anycase , I think that the supplier of that coil should not be promoting it as a deflag as it’s little spigot gives the impression that it can be connected via a plastic hose to the PC ..... another thing we don’t condone at HD .

[Æther]

I’m just thinking that you will need to have super fine control over coolant flow because it is such a large coil . The coils in a T500 are relatively small in comparison and folk still have problems with them .
Shady made a coil deflag in his 4” and it was barely a few turns and not very long at all .
Similarly other coils used as deflags in other stills in the construction area have only needed small coils to be effective .
Mindyou , the coil you are looking at is Stainless not copper so perhaps the poor heat conductivity will make it less effective

Ok, got ya. I have only been doing sugar wash so far, so perhaps puking has never been a thing for me, want to move away from this though so better set this up prepared for any eventualities.

That spigot is intended to be a vent when its used as a PC in a VM or LM .
At HD we recommend 1/2” to be the minimum size that vapour lines should be to so that in the case of a Puke or foam up , there is minimal chance of a blockage and potential for explosion .

Duly noted. I've made some adaptations based on the feedback here. I know people are suggesting to go CCVM, and it's probably a good idea, but I'd like to wrap my head around rebuilding a concept I'm already familiar with first. So, screw the massive deflag, I'll make one from copper and route it thru a short spool tube with two thermo ports. Something akin to this. That way I can keep it short as suggested.

For the vapour line, and I'm hoping I've not overdone it here but would 1.5" be too much? I figured this 2" - 1.5" hose would clamp just above the deflag spool and run to a 1.5" leibig

Thoughts?

[Berserk]

If you're worried about how to brace the product condenser (which in your last picture is a shotgun/tube in shell condenser, not a Liebig) and are looking for a way to connect it I'd recommend two 90° tri-clamp elbows. They're sturdy and can support the weight, you can tilt the product condenser whichever way you want and you don't need to worry about any plastic in the hoses or similar problems.

Just curious, why do you want to use hose to connect the column to the PC in the first place?

[Æther]

You know, Beserk, the design had just had a hose from the start due to the various connectors on the original parts, guess I got tunnel vision

Thank you!

[Æther]

Think I’ve been on Ali express looking at triclamp parts for far too long at this point

The only thing left is to match up the copper deflag to the thermoports/outs. And hoping the damn boiler supports this weight.

One question that popped to mind though is that the T500 plastic condenser cap is loose, I assume this is for venting? I understand the boka type stills require a vent but I’m not sure if I ran this design in reflux whether it would also?

[Yummyrum]

OK , all stills should always have some way to vent off to atmosphere . ... obviously ... so there is no chance of pressure build up .

A pot still is the classic example . There is a clear path from the boiler to the product condenser and the atmosphere .

A CM still is a pretty close cousin . Only a Deflagmator in line ... and a whole bunch of packing ...or plates .

Then theres the LM and VM .
Now these have a valve inline with the output .. boom

All going well , they will reflux everything and the valve will set the takeoff . But ... they still need a vent incase the RC can’t handle the power

[Æther]

Adding a thermoport to one elbow with pressure gauge popped in could be an option then I guess. Any accumulated pressure would just pop the gauge...

[still_stirrin]

Adding a thermoport to one elbow with pressure gauge popped in could be an option then I guess. Any accumulated pressure would just pop the gauge...

Never rely on a pressure gage to signal an overpressure condition! Always provide an atmospheric vent path to preclude pressure build up. ALWAYS.
ss

[SpeakEasy]

[/quote]
Never rely on a pressure gage to signal an overpressure condition! Always provide an atmospheric vent path to preclude pressure build up. ALWAYS.
ss
[/quote]

If you are suggesting a check valve... What PSI would you recommend?

[Æther]

Adding a thermoport to one elbow with pressure gauge popped in could be an option then I guess. Any accumulated pressure would just pop the gauge...

Never rely on a pressure gage to signal an overpressure condition! Always provide an atmospheric vent path to preclude pressure build up. ALWAYS.
ss

Noted! And thank you!

[still_stirrin]

Never rely on a pressure gage to signal an overpressure condition! Always provide an atmospheric vent path to preclude pressure build up. ALWAYS.
ss

If you are suggesting a check valve... What PSI would you recommend?

Absolutely NOT!

No valves. Open vents only. And a 1/4” diameter hole is not adequate. A hole 3/4” or larger is needed in the reflux head.
ss

[SpeakEasy]

Good to know.

[Æther]

Never rely on a pressure gage to signal an overpressure condition! Always provide an atmospheric vent path to preclude pressure build up. ALWAYS.
ss

If you are suggesting a check valve... What PSI would you recommend?

Absolutely NOT!

No valves. Open vents only. And a 1/4” diameter hole is not adequate. A hole 3/4” or larger is needed in the reflux head.
ss

One of these boys perhaps between the elbows then?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295955 ... 5612%23329

Some of this shit is not easy to find

[Berserk]

Æther, if you're making a CM (I.e. basically a pot still with a dephlagmator) you're already open to the atmosphere through the condenser, so you don't need a dedicated vent hole.

LM and VM stilla however works by closing of the path to the condenser, and thus need a dedicated venting hole to avoid pressure build up.