Flute Operating Parameters for Bourbon

[Jimbo]

It doesn't have to be a dramatic change to give dramatic results. I put copper mesh in the defleg vapor tubes and it was a whole new girl to learn.

[BamaHawk]

Jimbo, thank you very much for this thought provoking post.

Regarding smearing, do you have a nice proper flood on each plate? Aside from that its got to be either too much heat, or adding back too many feints.

All plates remained flooded/loaded during the run. The top plate began to dry out towards the end but for the majority it remained loaded. Based on previous posts in this thread, I do not think it was too much heat and I feel it would be difficult to go any lower and still have reflux occurring. This was a virgin mash so there were no feints added.

Regarding 94%. Thats a function of your # plates. I run 3 plates and it gives me 86% at first and drops through the run. My keep cut always seems to avg 80%. And its not because I'm a wizard at hitting 80% bourbon numbers, it just wants to run there, with 3 plates. Its happy place.

THIS may be my problem and will be my next variable to adjust. I ran 4 plates, the same as I did with my first run at 94%, and I attempted to make adjustments to amps and defleg in order to get to the 80% bourbon numbers. I may have pushed the flute outside of its optimal running conditions with 4 plates and the result may have been smearing.

On heads/tails, this is very subjective and what makes all our hooches unique. Both fruity esters from the yeast and a little spank come from the heads. I like a touch of both. But its a fine line, unlike with the cardboard tails funk, that heads spank doesnt go away with age.

So the carboard tails funk will go away with age? This is definitely what was smeared through the run. When you say age are you referring to with age on oak or just with time in general (oak or white)? Maybe all is not lost if the funk will go away.

[Jimbo]

So the carboard tails funk will go away with age? This is definitely what was smeared through the run. When you say age are you referring to with age on oak or just with time in general (oak or white)? Maybe all is not lost if the funk will go away.

Yes, within reason of course. That musty cardboard smell dissipates and turns into a nice grainy flavor. We're talking bourbon so bbl or oak stick aged, but that funk dissipates in white too. 6 months minimum to start to taste the character of what youve got without the funk, 2+ years better.

[BamaHawk]

Yes, within reason of course. That musty cardboard smell dissipates and turns into a nice grainy flavor. We're talking bourbon so bbl or oak stick aged, but that funk dissipates in white too. 6 months minimum to start to taste the character of what youve got without the funk, 2+ years better.

Based in this, I will not give up hope on my current batch. I have it in gallon jars at the moment because I didn't want to barrel it with the funk in place. I may let it rest for a couple of more weeks and then revisit to see how funky it really is. If it mellows to being just mildly funky I may proceed with barreling and letting it sit for 6 months before tasting.

I am still planning to reduce my plates to 3 for the next run to see if my takeoff is closer to 80% running the flute efficiently. I really think, after reading your previous comments, that this may be the culprit. I was probably pushing the 4 plates outside of their comfort zone, unintentionally. I had actually considered going to 2 plates before the run and decided to minimize the variables I changed so, instead of reducing plates and adjusting the operating parameters, I just decided to adjust the parameters and this may have been a mistake.

Thank you very much for the advice!

[Deplorable]

Dont give up on it. I was concerned about the tails in my barrel of single malt, (even after reading on here about flavor in the tails), almost five months later the funk is turning into something wonderful. What was almost off putting when it went in, is now biscuits(think tea cookies) and butterscotch, silky smooth mouth. Now Im glad I cut as wide as I did.

[BamaHawk]

Dont give up on it. I was concerned about the tails in my barrel of single malt, (even after reading on here about flavor in the tails), almost five months later the funk is turning into something wonderful. What was almost off putting when it went in, is now biscuits(think tea cookies) and butterscotch, silky smooth mouth. Now Im glad I cut as wide as I did.

Thanks for this. Mine was definitely off-putting too which is why I was so concerned that I royally screwed up. I really did not want to put this stuff in a new barrel just to ruin the barrel. Based on your feedback as well as others I think I may go ahead and do it. I'll let it sit for another week or two in glass and then resample it and see how offensive it really is and then I may just gamble and fill up the barrel.

[Deplorable]

"Time and oak will sort it out."

[Saltbush Bill]

"Time and oak will sort it out."

Within reason.

I'll let it sit for another week or two in glass and then resample it and see how offensive it really is

My guess is it will taste much the same.....not much will happen in two weeks sitting in glass.

[Jimbo]

My guess is youre fine. Barrel it up and steal a fifth for XMAS. Otherwise leave it alone and check at 1 year if a 5g bbl. 2 yrs if a 10g.

Make more! You gotta stay ahead of the curve.

[bluedog]

I think you're on the right track of configuring your still to do the job you want it to. 94% seems pretty high for 4 plates though. Are you doing a temperature correction when proofing?
I've only aged for a year at most. Since bourbon is usually aged at least 4 I've decided to aim for a higher proof than 160. 170ish has worked well for me. Tastes good white, but is still full flavored after aging. My still (also perf plates) seems to be happy running at 170 with 4-5 plates if I lauter and do a single run, or 2 plates on my spirit run if I do a striping run on the grain first.

[BamaHawk]

94% seems pretty high for 4 plates though. Are you doing a temperature correction when proofing?
I've only aged for a year at most. Since bourbon is usually aged at least 4 I've decided to aim for a higher proof than 160. 170ish has worked well for me. Tastes good white, but is still full flavored after aging. My still (also perf plates) seems to be happy running at 170 with 4-5 plates if I lauter and do a single run, or 2 plates on my spirit run if I do a striping run on the grain first.

Yes, I haven't completed a large dataset of runs yet but the ones so far, where I attempt to optimize the reflux, gets me between 93-94% temp corrected on 4 plates. I will say that to do this the take-off speed is between 1.2-1.5 l/h which, based on comments from others in a different thread, is very slow for a 4" 4 plate flute. I also lauter my mash pre-distillation. At 93-94% the flavor isn't "bad" but it is definitely lacking the character and complexity I would expect of a bourbon.

I think, with 4 plates, my still would run happily in the 170-180 range at a respectable output level but my goal with this batch was to try and hit "bourbon" distillation specifications of sub 160. I revisited the batch last night and it isn't quite as offensive as I remember when I originally blended it but it is still offensive enough that I would not want to drink much of it white. I think I will just gamble and barrel it and see what magic occurs over 6 months and then again at 1 yr. My next run I have already decided to go down to 3 plates and try to run optimally with the lower plate count to see what happens. The more we discuss this the more convinced that I was just trying to push the 4 plates to do something they didn't want to do.

[Jimbo]

I revisited the batch last night and it isn't quite as offensive as I remember when I originally blended it but it is still offensive enough that I would not want to drink much of it white.

Dont get too tangled up in the taste of it young. It tastes like shit, frankly. Give it time. Its not gonna change from one day or week to the next. Put it away, forget about it and do more runs. Taste is at 4 months, thats when I found that tails starts turning into grain flavor.

[Deplorable]

I revisited the batch last night and it isn't quite as offensive as I remember when I originally blended it but it is still offensive enough that I would not want to drink much of it white.

Dont get too tangled up in the taste of it young. It tastes like shit, frankly. Give it time. Its not gonna change from one day or week to the next. Put it away, forget about it and do more runs. Taste is at 4 months, thats when I found that tails starts turning into grain flavor.

That's been my [limited] experience. I'm selective which tails jars for into the final blend, as to not include a lot of cloudy stuff, but also less worried now of the lighter funk knowing it will become something completely different over time.

[Jimbo]

not include a lot of cloudy stuff, but also less worried now of the lighter funk knowing it will become something completely different over time.

Right. But regarding cloudy, you shouldnt be keeping anything even near the cloudy jar, thats way deep in the tails.

[BamaHawk]

Right. But regarding cloudy, you shouldnt be keeping anything even near the cloudy jar, thats way deep in the tails.

In my runs I stay way away from anything cloudy. The last two jars of the run in discussion on this thread were cloudy but they were immediately cut as well as the next two clear jars before the cloudiness began.

[Deplorable]

Maybe what I'm looking at after the cloudy jars is considered sweetwater(?) There's usually about 5 to 6 jars that are immediate rejects my tails come on, then about the third and fourth jar are cloudy. Then it clears up and a couple jars later its just clean and most of the funk is gone.
I dont know, but the single malt in my barrel had definitely improved over what it was going in. Even the jar of white I left out for comparison has tamed some, though not nearly as much.