Single malt whiskey using LME

[shadylane]

Ingredients

LME, water and yeast.

Guess the first step is to figure out how many pounds of LME is needed per 15 gallons of wash.
I'm also guessing this is going to get expensive.
Any ideas, suggestions or warnings are welcome.

[stillanoob]

Probably somewhere around 40#. That should get you close to 10% I think. As to if it is a good idea, I dunno. I do know a guy who one some awards with his rye whisky that was made from extract.

[Saltbush Bill]

Nothing other than Ive used it as an additive in a bastardized version of UJSSM .......one tin went a long way as far as flavour goes.

[OtisT]

LME is really easy to work with. The stuff I have used sure smelled nice.

The only warning I have for you is that it foamed up quite a bit during the strip.

Otis

[shadylane]

Probably somewhere around 40#. That should get you close to 10% I think. As to if it is a good idea, I dunno. I do know a guy who one some awards with his rye whisky that was made from extract.

Since LME is expensive and I'm after a smooth whiskey, I was thinking a starting gravity around 1.06 ish
Then figure out how to get the final gravity down to below 1.000

Posting with Otis
That's part of the reason I'm chasing a lower Final Gravity

[Twisted Brick]

Getting below 1.000 might be tough. I believe there is a fair amount of unfermentables created in making LME. A beta enzyme might help conversion to some degree.

[Twisted Brick]

Nothing other than Ive used it as an additive in a bastardized version of UJSSM .......one tin went a long way as far as flavour goes.

That's brilliant. Never thought of doing that!

[Deplorable]

Getting below 1.000 might be tough. I believe there is a fair amount of unfermentables created in making LME. A beta enzyme might help conversion to some degree.

I was thinking about this very thing the other day on my commute. Would enzymes help break down the unfermentables and help the wort along?
It might be worth a shot, bring the extract up to a boil, kill the heat, and add some HTL, and betas on the way down, before pitching yeast?
Ive been wanting to try one just to see how it would taste. I cant imagine LME would be any harder to strip than an all molly rum wash.

When I was making LME beer years ago, I seem to recall 2 gallons (14#) of LME for a 5 gallon boil on a 5% beer ferment. So I think you're looking at 60# or better for a 8% wash?

[Twisted Brick]

I have limited experience with liquid extracts but the beer site recommend beta. Makes sense since HTL works at temps above normal worts. Also figures that LME mfrs ensure their worts ends up sweet.

[nerdybrewer]

I got a bunch of it for free once, light LME.
Used it to make a scotch, added peated barley so it was a partial mash, aged in a barrel.
Turned out super awesome, but like others say it does foam up during distillation so be prepared.

[Twisted Brick]

Nice utilization of extract, Nerdy.

[Trapped-in-Oz]

I have found that LME foams less then DME and dark malt foams less than light malt. I also include either wheat germ (cooked) or polenta (raw), golden sugar and Vegemite. M1 yeast.
Whether liquid or dry, dark or light all were good.

[shadylane]

I'm thinking the 8 pounds LME per 5 gallon water with a SG of 1.056 sounds good.
1.6 pounds LME per gallon X my 15gal fermenter = 24lb LME

I'd like to do three 15 gallon striping runs.
45gal X 1.6 = 72 pounds of LME
Compared to a sugar wash, this is going to get expensive

Can anyone help verify if the info I'm using is correct or at least in the ball park?


"All of our liquid malt extracts yield about 1.035 gravity points per pound of malt extract per gallon of water. For example if you used 5 lbs of extract in a 5 gallon batch it would yield a 1.035 starting gravity. Another way to think of it is that for each pound of liquid extract someone adds to their recipe they are adding 7 pts of gravity. In a 5 gallon batch: 5 lbs - 1.035 6 lbs - 1.042 7 lbs - 1.049 8 lbs - 1.056 9 lbs - 1.063 10lbs - 1.070"

[shadylane]

Getting below 1.000 might be tough. I believe there is a fair amount of unfermentables created in making LME. A beta enzyme might help conversion to some degree.

I was thinking about this very thing the other day on my commute. Would enzymes help break down the unfermentables and help the wort along?

I'll try experimenting using some of the HTL and Gluco that's in the shop fridge.
The enzymes aren't listed in the original ingredients, but this is the recipe development section.

[shadylane]

Any suggestions on how dark of LME should I order for small scale experimenting?
Before jumping head first into a 45 gal ferment with $150 of LME.

[Deplorable]

Any suggestions on how dark of LME should I order for small scale experimenting?
Before jumping head first into $150 of LME

I dont have any recommendations, but I'll follow along. It's been so long since I've done extract and partial grain beers that I just scratch my head. I'd think you would want something fit for a porter or a stout? Something along the lines of Ola Dubh? I dunno, but I think the stout or strong ale extracts might carry some interesting flavors over.

[Sleighahh]

Any suggestions on how dark of LME should I order for small scale experimenting?
Before jumping head first into a 45 gal ferment with $150 of LME.

Not a distiller (yet) but from a homebrewer's POV...

Before I went all-grain I did some beers with the amber/dark liquid malt extracts and found them to be pretty unpredictable in terms of fermentability and flavour profile. They don't always tell you what grains make up the extract.

From what I remember they're a bit one-and-done. Amber malt extract would give you something around a amber ale or British pale ale. Dark gives you something in the porter/stout range. And from what I've seen around here you don't want to be using more than 10% specialty malt in a whiskey. I'd hazard a guess that the dark/amber LMEs have around 10-20% specialty malts. Maybe a blend of some light and amber could be the ticket? Or if you have a Maris Otter/UK Pale Ale malt extract available that could be a good starting point - malty but not over-the-top?

Just a noob's 2c.

[Twisted Brick]

I'd hazard a guess that the dark/amber LMEs have around 10-20% specialty malts. Maybe a blend of some light and amber could be the ticket? Or if you have a Maris Otter/UK Pale Ale malt extract available that could be a good starting point - malty but not over-the-top?

Just a noob's 2c.

Good point. Makes a case to run yield numbers from a test boil. If you're blending extracts around an amber, don't forget a partial stovetop mash with some peated magic (if you like that kinda thing).

[shadylane]

For better or worst here's what I've ordered. 32lb of Briess CBW Traditional Dark (LME)
If it's too malty, I'll try something lighter and do some blending.

https://www.brewingwithbriess.com/wp-co ... rk-LME.pdf

[shadylane]

Here's the percentage of the different sugars in the LME.

Glucose.............................. 13%
Maltose .............................. 47%
Maltotriose........................... 13%
Higher Saccharides ................. 19%

I'd bet gluco enzymes would convert most, if not all the Maltotriose to fermentable sugars
Since Maltotriose is made of 3 glucose sugars in a row.

Don't know about the "Higher Saccharides"
But figure at least some will be converted to fermentable sugars.

[Twisted Brick]

shady,

This sounds yummy...

54% Bonlander® Munich Malt 10L
30% Base Malt
13% Carmel Malt 60L
3% Black Malt
Water

Listed with 75% fermentability, it would be interesting to see if enzymes or some malt might up that a bit. Curious to hear how it shakes out.

[Pikey]

Hi Shady, just browsing when I came across your thread here

I see people are still looking at the Malt extract solution and at the risk of upsetting all again I'd draw your attention to what Saltbush said here

Nothing other than Ive used it as an additive in a bastardized version of UJSSM .......one tin went a long way as far as flavour goes.

I did do a search on Pikeys easy scotch - and I know I ddi a thread on it - but all I came up with were a few posts here ;

I'm on "pikeys easy Scotch" - straight off the nipple - she's on "very Bacardi (ish)" - put some down on oak, with a few additions - teaspoons of money gives buckets of product

Anyhow - I hope it goes well and I'll keep an eye on teh thread

ATB

P

[rubberduck71]

I did do a search on Pikeys easy scotch - and I know I ddi a thread on it - but all I came up with were a few posts here ;

I'm on "pikeys easy Scotch" - straight off the nipple - she's on "very Bacardi (ish)" - put some down on oak, with a few additions - teaspoons of money gives buckets of product

Anyhow - I hope it goes well and I'll keep an eye on teh thread

ATB

P

Damnit Pikey, you sent me down the google search rabbit hole & I couldn't find "Pikeys easy scotch".

If anyone finds this recipe with LME, I'd be much appreciated! I have Scottish blood in my lineage, but not a fan of the peat (yet???). I'm more of a rye guy & recently have been appreciating Irish whiskey (Tullamore Dew or Killbeggan). A scotch that's "light" on the peat may be right up my alley, so let's put an APB out on that that link!!!

Cheers,
Duck

[Pikey]

I did do a search on Pikeys easy scotch - and I know I ddi a thread on it - but all I came up with were a few posts here ;

I'm on "pikeys easy Scotch" - straight off the nipple - she's on "very Bacardi (ish)" - put some down on oak, with a few additions - teaspoons of money gives buckets of product

Anyhow - I hope it goes well and I'll keep an eye on teh thread

ATB

P

Damnit Pikey, you sent me down the google search rabbit hole & I couldn't find "Pikeys easy scotch".

If anyone finds this recipe with LME, I'd be much appreciated! I have Scottish blood in my lineage, but not a fan of the peat (yet???). I'm more of a rye guy & recently have been appreciating Irish whiskey (Tullamore Dew or Killbeggan). A scotch that's "light" on the peat may be right up my alley, so let's put an APB out on that that link!!!

Cheers,
Duck

Ok Duck - well I had a look around too and although I'm not finding a way of linking back to posts - we can try this

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65350

Scroll down and you will see I get a bit of a "kicking" but I still make and drink it - so I don't want to hijack Shady's thread - but I'll start another if you like - Fact is that I can get close to Glenmorangie - which is my objective and I can do it cheaply without a lot of fuss - It'd be good to have one or two interested people to pick it up and help progress it

[shadylane]

Listed with 75% fermentability, it would be interesting to see if enzymes or some malt might up that a bit. Curious to hear how it shakes out.

I'm curios also.
An example of how a lower final gravity would effect the alcohol content.
A 1.060 mash finishing at 1.010 would have 6.45% alcohol
The same mash finishing at 1.000 would have 7.75% alcohol.
If by chance the final gravity got down to 0.990 there would be 9.03%

Plus a mash with a lower final gravity, should be less likely to foam up and puke.

[shadylane]

I sure wished the LME was here already. I'm getting impatient to get started.
The LME was ordered from MoreBeer. One day after placing the order, they had already shipped it.
I've ordered from MoreBeer before and they've always done a good job.

I've been cleaning some jugs for doing test ferments in.
Out of laziness, the experiment isn't going to be very scientific.
I'll fill my fermenter with water and mix in enough LME to get 1.060.
Next I'll remove a couple jars full to use for the control group.

The fermenter has a heated water jacket.
So I'll mix the gluco into the mash and turn the heat up.
I'll give it a couple hours to convert. Then drain the hot water out of the jacket and run cool water.

After every thing has finished fermenting, I'll check the final gravity of the jars without gluco.
And compare it to the mash that had gluco added.

I still haven't decided what yeast to use, but it will probably be bakers.

[JakeB]

I did a wash like this using golden light DME, the results were fantastic, still enjoying it now but need to start more soon. LME should produce similar results. Definitely use gluco enzymes, or a yeast pack that includes them like Liker Quick Whiskey Pure. You should be able to ferment it out dry with enzymes. This will reduce foaming during the strip. I also used a couple drops of anti foam, and under filled my boiler a bit. I didn't have any puking. I haven't tried darker malts, but from what I have read and from the batch I tried, light malt extract makes a nice whiskey. Though ingredients are a bit expensive, it is worth it. Came out with a nice grain cereal flavor up front with sweet malty finish. Grain flavors came out in the middle of the hearts, sweet malt came at the end of the hearts and beginning of the tails. The cereal toned down and it developed a nice barel candy flavor with age on French oak. I got a bit of tails trying to chase the sweet malt that I could taste in the white, most of that cleaned up with the aged product. Next time I will make more conservative cuts, maybe loosing a bit of sweet malt but avoiding tails. Oak aging did clean most of it up, but when I water it down to around 20%, I can still taste it in there...

[shadylane]

As normal I changed my game plan.
Looks like I'll be doing three test ferments.
All of them are starting at 1.060
One without enzymes, One with gluco only and one with gluco and high temp alpha.

[Deplorable]

Looking forward to the results.

[shadylane]

According to my Great Grandson.
His teething toy tastes better with a drop of malt extract.