crafted beer ageing (just my idle interest)

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Well, here we have a bear whose lady was not faithful to him...
in addition to barley malt, it's brewed with some corn and sugar.
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.
To be honest, it's okay just "as is". But I wonder if it could become a diamond after some years passed.

My Pros:
1. It's over 8% AbV / good for ageing.
2. It had sugar in the mash... not bad for transformations by time, too.

My Contra: it's an alu. can. Is it coated well or not inside?

"Drink them or cellar them, we just want you to enjoy them."
So, is it worth to keep it in my cupboard?

[Deplorable]

It won't age in the can. But the can should have a micro thin plastic coating on the inside. Thats why Coca-Cola doesn't eat through the can.

[stillanoob]

That beer is made real close to me. Not my favorite offering of theirs. Back in my brewing days I did find that with some beers there was an aging curve where it could improve. A high proof porter I used to make comes to mind. But the curve wasn't very long, after 18 months or so it would start to slide and get worse instead of better.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Thanks for your comments, guys

Why cannot it be aged just in a can: already filtered and pasteurised, stabilised?

Funny to know that a small can from CA is sold in the hole of the world like mine. Do they have huge capacities there?

[subbrew]

8% is really not an aging candidate in my opinion. But taste it, does it have a harshness that could be rounded with age? Does it have flavors that are not melding together that might with time.

I make a stout each year that comes in between 11% and 12%. When first brewed the roasted malts give it an acrid and harsh flavor. The alcohol is very much forward and the hops (about 85 IBU) beat up your taste buds but don't counter the malt. But I brewing it in January for the next winter. By Nov the acrid is gone and giving rich, raisin flavors. The sharpness of the hops are gone and mellowed into the malt. You still taste it is a high test beer but the alcohol is at a warmth at the back.

[NZChris]

Every year you keep it it will be a year older. Whether, or not, this is a good thing will be decided by your taste buds. Buy at least a dozen cans, taste one per year and keep tasting notes. If your last can tastes the best, you should have bought more cans.

[stillanoob]

Thanks for your comments, guys

Why cannot it be aged just in a can: already filtered and pasteurised, stabilised?

Funny to know that a small can from CA is sold in the hole of the world like mine. Do they have huge capacities there?

No, it is a medium sized facility at most. For some reason they seem to have quite a following outside of the local area. They do make great beer but so do a lot of small breweries. The North Coast Brewing Company which is also close to me seems to have the same.

[subbrew]

Thanks for your comments, guys

Why cannot it be aged just in a can: already filtered and pasteurised, stabilised?

Funny to know that a small can from CA is sold in the hole of the world like mine. Do they have huge capacities there?

It will age in the can. Just not sure of the lining of the can is thick enough to not expose the metal over time. But, either bottle or can, medium alcohol beer usually does not age well for long periods of time. The hops fade rather quickly, by six months any hop forward beer will be flat tasting as far as hops. Malty beers do a little better but by a year usually start to get a muted flavor. The reason is that those beers are mostly water. there are not that many flavor compounds per volume.

A high gravity beer got that extra gravity by having more grain and usually more hops to balance the flavor. Now time has a lot more to work with. As the flavors change there is just a lot more of the flavor compounds per volume to work with, allowing things like raisin flavors to develop in the malt. there is also the higher alcohol which helps to preserve some of the flavors or at least affects how they change.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

But taste it, does it have a harshness that could be rounded with age? Does it have flavors that are not melding together that might with time.

It's pretty fine as is.

I make a stout each year that comes in between 11% and 12%. When first brewed the roasted malts give it an acrid and harsh flavor. The alcohol is very much forward and the hops (about 85 IBU) beat up your taste buds but don't counter the malt. But I brewing it in January for the next winter. By Nov the acrid is gone and giving rich, raisin flavors. The sharpness of the hops are gone and mellowed into the malt. You still taste it is a high test beer but the alcohol is at a warmth at the back.

As much as 12%,,, oh, my!.. Sounds to be a barley wine, not stout, eh?

Thanks for your description of the transformations. What kind of hops do you use for these thangs?

My stouts are 6.5% AbV and I use some "neutral/grass-ish" hops from UK or Germany.

A high gravity beer got that extra gravity by having more grain and usually more hops to balance the flavor. Now time has a lot more to work with.

So, we'd better start mashing @ 68oC / 154F and keep it for 20-25 minutes only, right?

Every year you keep it it will be a year older. Whether, or not, this is a good thing will be decided by your taste buds. Buy at least a dozen cans, taste one per year and keep tasting notes. If your last can tastes the best, you should have bought more cans.

One per year? Mmkay, I'm gonna buy not much of, say, 200 cans

The North Coast Brewing Company which is also close to me seems to have the same.

That made a note for my future "loading", thankee!

[NZChris]

I have tasted a very nice, full bodied, Danish craft beer that, according to the label, is best cellared for X number of years. I forget how long it was, but I was amused that the Use By Date printed on the label was several years earlier. Unfortunately, I had to drink mine before getting on the flight back home because my duty free allowance was taken up with Gammel Dansk.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I have tasted a very nice, full bodied, Danish craft beer that, according to the label, is best cellared for X number of years.

Was it bottled?
I have some Belgian masterpieces under the cork

[NZChris]

Definitely bottled, I don't remember if it was corked or capped.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Cork is for low-pressure stories

[subbrew]

It's pretty fine as is.

So it does not have much room for improvement with age. It has been brewed to be peak now

Thanks for your description of the transformations. What kind of hops do you use for these thangs?

I use mostly chinook and Magnum. I also put in some Willamette. I chose those because along with Centennial, those are the 4 varieties I grow.

So, we'd better start mashing @ 68oC / 154F and keep it for 20-25 minutes only, right?

Don't totally understand this comment. What I was getting at was the extra grain gives extra flavor compounds, not just sugars. I use over 22 lb of grain in a 4.5 gal batch for my high test stout as opposed to only 9.5 lb for a 4.5 gal batch of my summer IPA. I mash the stout for 90 minutes at 156 F and got a FG of 1.025. The IPA I mash at 148 F for 60 minutes and get a FG of 1.009

[NormandieStill]

I make a stout each year that comes in between 11% and 12%. When first brewed the roasted malts give it an acrid and harsh flavor. The alcohol is very much forward and the hops (about 85 IBU) beat up your taste buds but don't counter the malt. But I brewing it in January for the next winter. By Nov the acrid is gone and giving rich, raisin flavors. The sharpness of the hops are gone and mellowed into the malt. You still taste it is a high test beer but the alcohol is at a warmth at the back.

I would very much like to try that at some point. Have you ever tried oaking it? Dark Island Reserve is aged in used Scotch malt barrels and is sublime (and damned hard to get a hold of). I've always dreamed of trying that as an experiment.

[subbrew]

I would very much like to try that at some point. Have you ever tried oaking it? Dark Island Reserve is aged in used Scotch malt barrels and is sublime (and damned hard to get a hold of). I've always dreamed of trying that as an experiment.

Several years ago I did make a stout and added oak chips I had soaked in bourbon. I didn't care that much for it. But that was also a different stout recipe before I got to the one I have used for the last 4 or 5 years. I may try adding a used oak stick if I am ready to pull the oak from my UJSSM when I next brew a batch.

I would think on the 5 gallon scale to put a batch in a barrel which had previously had bourbon or rum would just be too much for the stout, totally over power it.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

So it does not have much room for improvement with age. It has been brewed to be peak now

Gotit! Plus thanks for your comments on the hops.

Don't totally understand this comment. What I was getting at was the extra grain gives extra flavor compounds, not just sugars.

Out of the mash contents discussion... I meant the higher temp and the shorter my starch conversion rest's time = the more dextrines and the higher FG.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

<necroposting>
Huh, the other day bottled with honey "my clone" of that horned bear: some pale ale + some carapils + some chocomalt + caramelized sugar + toasted corn flakes + just a tiny qty. of chinook + us-05...
Got 7.5% AbV. Damn, that's yummy. Even damissus liked it. Lemme call it "My American Stout", please.
</necroposting>

[subbrew]

Sounds good. Stout usually has something a little more roasty in the malt bill but I guess with the Chocolate malt we can let it in the american stout definition.

I have never used corn in beer, not seen it used in a stout type beer, usually just in American Lagers. Can you taste the toasted corn?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Stout usually has something a little more roasty in the malt bill but I guess with the Chocolate malt we can let it in the American stout definition.

You're right: deeply roasted/burnt malts were absent that session. Due to the sugar caramel (almost brown but still not burnt) the color of the beer turned out more red-ish than black. And the taste is milder / it's not so bitter like in the most of stouts that my wifie cannae drink. So, let it be the stout of hers

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I have never used corn in beer, not seen it used in a stout type beer, usually just in American Lagers. Can you taste the toasted corn?

Yeah, looks like we can... as for us, it's a bit sweet and bizkit.
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Talking of the koяnz... I went nuts yesterday. To understand it all, I made 2.8kg of toasted corn (see above) + 3kg of pilsner. Got 14oP (1.057OG?). Hops: 60%Europe/40%America. It's bubbling now by means of... Lallemand Kveik, lol. During the boiling, the "odor" was so-so. And some fresh/veggie corn in taste before hopping. Well, I have nothing to do but waiting&seeing... maybe, I'll just bourbon it. Maybe not

[RC Al]

Have noticed that barrel ageing is "the next big thing" with beer people..

Damn them all to hell, its going to push the price of used barrels up and then theres going to be barrels floating around 2nd hand that impart a hops flavour ffs

[subbrew]

Should not be many hop forward beers put in barrels as they don't age well. The hops flavor starts degrading in a couple of months and by 6 months is significantly degraded. So most barrels will have malty beers, imperial stouts, perhaps some fruit beers. Yes, still going to push up prices via supply and demand. But after it passes there could be some cheap barrels that held imperil stout or barley wine that could make for some interesting whiskey, especially if you have a grain bill with some dark malts.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

by 6 months is significantly degraded

It is. If it's not mashed and brewed with something like Brewtan B or other stabilizers. The brewtanned ones live stable at least for a year.