Can you dilute low wines too much?

[carlson20]

I'm a newbie and have been doing a lot of reading, but can't seem to find an answer to this question. If this is answered somewhere please put me in the right direction.

I have a pot still and am researching stripping and spirit runs and intend on trying out the Banjo Picking Boubon after I try a few test runs with plain ole water and a sugar wash. For my particiular 8 gal pot still I use an electric heating element that mounts through a TC clamp on the side of the pot, but in order to completely cover the heating element I need a minimum of 3.5 gallons of wash. Thus if I perform a stripping run and need to add water to the low wines to provide enough wash to cover the heating element, can I dilute the low wines too much? As an example, let's assume I get approximately 1 gal of distilate from the stripping run. Is it OK to add 3.5 to 4 gal of "clean" water in order to completely cover my heating element for my spirit run?
Thanks and cheers!

[Sporacle]

You can dilute as much as you want, the purpose of the stripping runs is to maximise the efficiency of your still and it allows for more product to make the cutting process a little more defined. Instead of diluting why not do another 3 mashes, strip them to a total of around 30abv and then do your spirit run, good luck
Edit, make sure that you have done your calculations for covering your element

[NZChris]

The element hight will be a PITA until you fix it. Heat rises, so you might have problems trying to boil the charge when the element is close to the surface.

[jonnys_spirit]

Or maybe do two strips and top it up with fresh mash beer instead of water - and feints from last run?

Cheers!
-j

[carlson20]

Good stuff! Thanks for the advice!

[carlson20]

Follow up question: I've seen in some other posts that I could possibly pursue putting someting solid (a shunk of stainless steel for example) into the still to take up some volume. It would have to a rod or bar (probably a bar so it was less likely to move around) so I can physically get it inside the still, but it may help. Could that work? If so, any ideas of what/where to buy such a thing?
Regards,

[jonnys_spirit]

How about a few big rocks?

[Demy]

The obvious answer would be to insert the lowest element ... but you can insert something to turn up the volume ... rock, sand, bricks, a full pot (raised from the bottom) etc ... as long as it is compatible with distillation

[NZChris]

I wonder if any of the numerous people who suggest putting all manner of junk in the boiler every time this question comes up have actually tried it, measured the temperature at the bottom and the abv of the backset, and know that it works?

[Deplorable]

A couple of great points made above. You need to address the height of that element. It shouldn't take nearly half the volume of your 8 gallon boiler to cover the element. That's a poor design.
If you can't lower the element, you need to raise the bottom, effectively reducing the total volume.

The element should be mounted as close to the bottom of the still boiler as possible. Heat rises.
Now, that being said, if you have a boiler where the element is mounted properly, and you still need to take up some space so to speak, I'd think a couple of SS ingots on either side of the element could be effective.

[The Baker]

Follow up question: I've seen in some other posts that I could possibly pursue putting someting solid (a shunk of stainless steel for example) into the still to take up some volume. It would have to a rod or bar (probably a bar so it was less likely to move around) so I can physically get it inside the still, but it may help. Could that work? If so, any ideas of what/where to buy such a thing?
Regards,

If you use a bar, maybe have a rod through a hole so you can lift it out afterwards?

Geoff

[rubberduck71]

Anything you add to the bottom to "consume" volume space will add significant weight. I assume with an 8 gal pot you just lift & pour the backset into the sink (I have similar sized boiler).

Finding SS or copper "bricks" may be problematic or costly. Lava stone too porous to push the liquid level up. Maybe consider glass marbles?

Def +1 to the recommendations to add another triclamp ferrule in a lower position (I believe you want a min of 1" from bottom), but until then def do x3 batches of mash. Strip them, add water to get below 40%, and you should be just fine. Silver lining side benefit: more product from your spirit run! Bummer...

Duck

[carlson20]

All good thoughts, thanks all!

I wish I could lower the heating element port, but I think that is a last option. I got my pot still as is and the heating element port was already installed. I could easily get a cap for the existing port and try to cut, and solder in a new port. But I feel that will take some siginficant work (although I could be wrong).

As was first suggested in this string, one option (and probably the best) is to run two batches in stripping runs, combined them, and fun one spirit run together. I'll def go with that option when possible.

However, I'd like to have a backup option available for those instances that I just do one batch. SS or copper ingots would be ideal, but as Duck suggested, they may be hard to find and cost prohititive. A few big rocks is a good idea as long as I clean them well, boil them, and soak them in sanitized water for a while. That should clean them enough so as to not affect any flavor.....?? I also found some high temperature "marbles", for weighting down pie crusts that should work great. They could prove to be costly however. Maybe even some ceramics or chunks of granite countertops.

True that this is going to add weight, which is why I'd like to be able to take them in and out so I can add/subtract them at my leisure. My still has a 4" diamter hatch so as long as they fit throug the hatch, they should work.

The big rock idea is by far the less expensive, so I'll investigate that option.

I know pH is improtant for fermentation, but is pH something that needs to be checked in low wines? In other words, do I need to check the pH of the low wines in between the stripping and spirit runs to ensure whatever I add (rocks, SS ingots, etc) don't negatively affect the pH? Obviously I don't want to add anything that will affect flavor.

Thanks again!!!

[still_stirrin]

Boilers will benefit from “boiling chips” used to aggregate or nucleate the formation of bubbles in the liquid. So, adding rocks to your boiler can actually help it “come online” quicker when heating. The formation of bubbles in random locations within the liquid will create eddys and help to agitate the liquid as well. Again, this action helps to distribute the heat within the liquid.

However, if your heat source (electric element) is positioned above the rocks, the effects of the boiling chips will be much less effective because convective forces in the liquid cause the thermal waves to rise upward, not downward within the liquid.

I’d believe that any “near term” solution to the boiler design problem would be ideally circumvented by redesign and modification for any long term utility. In other words, your “fix” will work once or twice to “get by”. But, relocating the element lower in the boiler would be advisable for any future planned use.

I certainly wouldn’t want to make a habit of shoving rocks into my boiler as a part of my hobby plans!
ss

[jonnys_spirit]

Another option is a second smaller boiler for smaller spirit runs. Probably cheap enough to DIY with a stock pot and hot plate and great for gin or other macerated spirits.

Cheers!
-j

[still_stirrin]

Another option is a second smaller boiler for smaller spirit runs. Probably cheap enough to DIY with a stock pot and hot plate and great for gin or other macerated spirits.

Cheers!
-j

Excellent idea jonny. I’m a “believer”.
ss

[NZChris]

You can bend elements.

My first still has the bottom element bent so far down that I can barely get my fingers under it. I've had to replace that element once in thirty years and that might have been twenty years ago. I have a spare.

[shadylane]

You can bend elements.

+1
And if needed lean or rotate the boiler to keep the element covered.

[NZChris]

Mine enters through the bottom at 45 degrees and is bent horizontal. 1.5 liters covers it. I've only ever had to worry about element height the few times I've done tiny spirit runs.

[NormandieStill]

Mine enters through the bottom at 45 degrees and is bent horizontal. 1.5 liters covers it. I've only ever had to worry about element height the few times I've done tiny spirit runs.

Now that's an interesting idea. Keeping that in the pocket for future modifications.

[carlson20]

Mine enters through the bottom at 45 degrees and is bent horizontal. 1.5 liters covers it. I've only ever had to worry about element height the few times I've done tiny spirit runs.

Good idea. I"ll keep that in mind!