JD chips vs self charred oak

[HItransplant]

New to hobby, and still feeling overwhelmed with wood prep for aging.

I’ve been fortunate to find a supply of American oak that’s well seasoned, and have enjoyed trying a few runs of different techniques. For the purpose of the comparison, the process I used on my own wood was with 1/2x 1/2x 5 inch oak heart sticks (split and sawn, no sand paper), hit with a mapp gas torch just long enough to get the wood glowing… a heavy chat was the intent).

I also bought some of the JD barrel chips. For an equivalent time on spirit, the chips have imparted significantly more flavor and color than my home prepped wood.

Ok, on to
The question:

Is it the whiskey still in the chips? Or am overestimating the surface area of my sticks compared to that of the chips?

Thanks for any input!

[NZChris]

If you open the bag and it still smells like Jack, it still has some whiskey in it.

The ratio of surface area to volume affects the speed of extraction, so chips color faster than dominoes.

You should toast your dominoes before charring them.

Extraction is only the first part of ageing. There are many chemical interactions that will follow, so don't confuse color and early flavor with ageing. The dominoes with eventually catch up with the chips.

[Saltbush Bill]

Dominos is a term used by Still dragon for a product they sell Chris, Punkin first used that name as far as I am aware to describe them when he started selling them years ago.
They are not the same thing as home made , home charred sticks.
https://stilldragon.com.au/products/ame ... dium-toast

[NZChris]

If there is a name for approx. 1/2x 1/2x 5 inch oak heart sticks, that's what I've been using for quite while and I'd like to know what it is?

[Saltbush Bill]

If there is a name for approx. 1/2x 1/2x 5 inch oak heart sticks, that's what I've been using for quite while and I'd like to know what it is?

If they are cut out of staves or barrel ends and toasted at home it aint .
If you'd care to find reference to "Dominoes" on any Distilling forum anywhere on the net prior to Punkin naming a product that he was trying to promote, and people beginning to use those then I'd love to see a link.
I was just trying to point out a simple fact....take it or leave it.

[NZChris]

I'll just use the term in my shed and not on forums then.

[jonnys_spirit]

I call em fingers… and if they think of it like a middle finger that i only use in anger it makes the whiskey burn in a very special way

[LWTCS]

Yep, Punkin coined that name.

[Deplorable]

I call em fingers… and if they think of it like a middle finger that i only use in anger it makes the whiskey burn in a very special way

+1
I call em fingers, or bones. Though I cut mine a bit fatter than half×half inch. Mine are .7 inches square and 5 inches long when toasted and charred, and seasoned at 1.5×.75×5 inch.

I'd think "Dominos" would be good to use in a wide mouth vessel like a jar, but not in a demijon.

[Saltbush Bill]

Takes about a second to split one in half length wise using a sharp knife , so yes they work in demijohns easily too.
Back to the original question.....

I also bought some of the JD barrel chips. For an equivalent time on spirit, the chips have imparted significantly more flavor and color than my home prepped wood.

Chips will colour more quickly but are not the best solution. It's said by the majority of people that they have to much end grain.

am overestimating the surface area of my sticks compared to that of the chips?

I've always found 1 stick 1/2 X 1/2X 5 per Litre to be about right for aging long term.
As a general rule of thumb.....less for longer is better than a lot for a short time.

[HItransplant]

Thanks Chris. I anticipated they would be different, and I am by no means trying to rush the process… I mean it’s “aging” after all. I guess I was just curious if it was more about the left over whiskey in the chips or the increased surface area. To give more narrative, I’m asking this from a place of trying to learn how to prep my own hardwoods. When a sample on the chips tastes way better in less time, it makes me wonder if I should be using more of my wood, or preparing it differently.

Re toasting first, I’ve prepped my wood the pintoshine way:

I'm not a fan of toasted oak. It is good in wine but not to my liking in spirits.
I posted this by request after sharing some of my sticks with wineo and from him, some aged spirits to mntwalker2.
This is my charred oak stick procedure with com observations.

I select White Oak from which I know the origin. I buy mine near Sonora Kentucky from some Amish fellow's sawmill. I try very hard only to get heart wood. I put them out in the weather, stacked with spacing between them to use for various wood working projects.
When they are good and dry, in about a year, the top ones have aged in the weather really bad and turned gray. These are the ones I won't use for wood working because they require a lot of cleanup. But, these have the best aging flavor. A lot of the water soluble volatiles have been leached out. These can give some bitterness in a long aging.
I rip these boards into 1/2" x 1/2" X 6" sticks either in my band saw or my table saw. It depends which one has less junk piled on it at the time.
I don't pay much attention to grain because sometimes these were the crooked boards or knotty boards anyway. That's why they are the cover boards on the stack.
After they are cut, I put 40 or so on the grating on the charcoal grill. I make two rows, with an inch or two between the rows and all the sticks in the row touching each other side by side.
I use my mapp gas torch with the instant start trigger. The mapp gas is so extremely hot that it can char the outside of the wood extremely shallow. It only burns about a 1/32 inch into the wood but chars it intensely enough that it removes the smoke taste and smell from the char. The wood immediately behind the char is caramelized. Since the char is carbon, and I char it until it turns bright orange, the resulting surface has thousands of micro cracks in it. These cracks are the alligator char in miniature. This gives much more area for the alcohol contact and allows the alcohol to flow through to the caramelized wood really fast. The intense heat is what allows this.

When I am torching the sticks I do the ends first. I hold the flame on the ends until they glow bright orange. and the wood grain is intensified. I then do the topside of the sticks working from end to end of each stick and preheating its neighbor. I always move slowly but constantly so that the surface has a chance to glow bright orange. The corners sometimes ignite but go out rather fast. I know I am moving about the right speed when I leave the corners smoking and sightly ashen. The I turn each stick 1/4 turn and do the top side again. By the time the fourth side comes around it won't need much to finish it off. I then bag them up for later use. I never wash them or pre-soak them. The char is as sterile as it can be.

The small amount of ash turns black in the spirits but is easy to remove. I always polish my spirits with a couple layers of coffee filter paper before final bottling anyway.

This process for making aging sticks is easy and rewarding. In 90 day with a ratio of two sticks per 750 ml or 10 to a gallon, it makes nearly a perfect sipping liquor. I have aged some as long as three years this way and the results are great.
Different liquors react differently with the sticks too. Wheat germ, especially the second generation, comes out dry after about 3 months. The fast fermenting molasses with no sugar added seems to pull more sweetness from the wood. It is really nice over ice. Sugar wash, especially the stuff that has been mostly cleaned up in a good column, approximates cheap patent still blended scotch. All wood but not much else.

The best proof for this wood is 120. The vanilla needs a bit higher alcohol but the water soluble caramel, especially the reddish part, needs water. I find that 120 proof is a real good compromise. Of course the proof can be fooled around with if you like. The more alcohol the dryer it is and the more water the more colorful it can get.
If you keep a lot of tails in your liquor, these sticks are a miracle worker. They can make a single run with lots of heads and tails taste almost like store bought stuff. If you like collecting everything but the foreshots, the these babies are nice to make harshness go away.

You know wood usually floats. In a couple weeks these become saturated and sink. Right after they sink, the mellowing starts.
These things are great in the smoker to flavor meat. Its second use is a family secret for pulled pork. Now you know why I weigh so much...

Thanks for the help, friends!

[still_stirrin]

… I’m asking this from a place of trying to learn how to prep my own hardwoods.

When a sample on the chips tastes way better in less time, it makes me wonder if I should be using more of my wood, or preparing it differently.

Well, perhaps your “paradigm” of better taste is askew.

What I’ve found is that “chunks” are better than “chips”. Sure, chips will color quicker, but the chunks, especially those made from actual barrel staves, impart a flavor closer to what the actual barrel aged whiskey would be. It takes more aging time, but the caramel and vanilla notes are much richer, opposed to the rougher, more tannic notes from the chips.

Also, it is a “proven fact” that less wood and more time in the aging jar produces a better product. It holds true to the statement here that “patience is the hardest thing to put into a bottle”.

Still, if you have a cask (10 liter to 5 gallon), then the BEST product would be from the cask. And aging in a 10 liter cask only requires 10 to 14 months to mature quite nicely. A 5 gallon cask would be best with 2 to 3 years maturity, however.

Bottomline, if you can approach a cask’s volume and surface ratios with aging in glass, then you should be able to replicate some of the same flavor and color profiles.
ss

[HItransplant]

… I’m asking this from a place of trying to learn how to prep my own hardwoods.

When a sample on the chips tastes way better in less time, it makes me wonder if I should be using more of my wood, or preparing it differently.

Well, perhaps your “paradigm” of better taste is askew.

What I’ve found is that “chunks” are better than “chips”. Sure, chips will color quicker, but the chunks, especially those made from actual barrel staves, impart a flavor closer to what the actual barrel aged whiskey would be. It takes more aging time, but the caramel and vanilla notes are much richer, opposed to the rougher, more tannic notes from the chips.

Also, it is a “proven fact” that less wood and more time in the aging jar produces a better product. It holds true to the statement here that “patience is the hardest thing to put into a bottle”.

Still, if you have a cask (10 liter to 5 gallon), then the BEST product would be from the cask. And aging in a 10 liter cask only requires 10 to 14 months to mature quite nicely. A 5 gallon cask would be best with 2 to 3 years maturity, however.

Bottomline, if you can approach a cask’s volume and surface ratios with aging in glass, then you should be able to replicate some of the same flavor and color profiles.
ss

Excellent info!

What I’ve picked up from reading reading reading is that the better flavors are the ones that don’t come quick. So what I’m distilling from your comments is that I not only have to be patient with my “jar to jar” experience, but also with the overall learning process. At least it’s a fun process!

Thanks for your time in posting!