uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Royalwulf]

I am about to make this for the first time. The recipie says to use 1 tbsp distillers yeast. I use bakers yeast, would i still use 1 tbsp? Other recipies say to use 1/2 cup of bakers yeast so.

[Sporacle]

Generally a bit more bakers yeast is required compared to distillers, I use it in my UJSSM and a good amount is my rough measurement, if you've found a recipe that states 1/2 a cup of bakers then go with that
Just remember this is in the tried and true section and UJ does state a teaspoon of distillers yeast.

[SmokyMtn]

1/2 a cup of yeast is 8 tbsp. If I were making 5 gallons I wouldn't go over 2 tbsp of bakers. 8 tbsp would just be a waste.

[NZChris]

Whatever yeast you choose and how much you use, you only have to pitch it into the first generation.

[Evil_Dark]

I am about to make this for the first time. The recipie says to use 1 tbsp distillers yeast. I use bakers yeast, would i still use 1 tbsp? Other recipies say to use 1/2 cup of bakers yeast so.

Good luck with your first time
This ferment is fairly easy, with a nice and smooth spirit in continuous result.
In general Baker Yeast is okay to substitute with, but in greater quantity. And don't forget that yeast is a good nutriment for yeast... So in some recipe, they over dose it to ensure enough nutrients for the mash viability.
In the UJSSSM, there is enough nutrients on its own, and Uncle Jessy has developped this recipe so it is ver efficient with the stated ingredients. With the litle experience I have, I would suggest to use 3 or 4 tbsp of baker yeast. It is cheap and available in large quantities so I would'nt be worried, as you can't really "over pitch"... Well unless you put wayyyy too much in it, like 1 pound...

If I can give you one advice that I've learned, when you syphon out the ferment, don't suck in the bottom of your fermenter, but over the corn sediment. A big amount of the living yeast will be hidden in the grains corn sediment in the bottom, and by taking it out it will take much longer to ferment dry the next time, and the result spirit will be a lot different... Not sure if it is because we having too much yeast in the boiler and by cooking them it gives a bad taste, or it's because the stress of the small amount of yeast remaining to colonise back the ferment gives this taste... But in my case, the product was not really good after I've racked the ferment by syphoning all the liquid to the bottom. The wines were almost clear with a nice yellow color, instead of a yellowish cloudy liquid when syphoned from the bottom. I ended restarting a batch over as I wasn't able to get rid of this off taste (hard to describe, but a hotter spirirt with a unpleasant burning sensasion in the palate).

Regards!

[Royalwulf]

Thanks for the replies

[bez]

I currently have my second generation (2 - 7 gallon ferments) of ujssm im about to run off. I want to up scale that to 1 - 30 gallon batch (as I just acquired a 60 gallon pickle barrel and would rather have 1 barrel than 2). I already figured out the backset I need (been using 30%) and the increase in corn needed. I plan on using the water I need to add to "rinse" both of the old fermenters so I can transfer contents to the new fermenter. Now on to my questions

1) will my yeast multiply naturally or will I need to add more yeast?
2) if I have to add more yeast will I lose the effect of souring of going into the 3rd generation?

[NZChris]

1) will my yeast multiply naturally or will I need to add more yeast?
2) if I have to add more yeast will I lose the effect of souring of going into the 3rd generation?

There is plenty of yeast in the grain bed. I've tripled the size of the next generation without any problems.

[bez]

1) will my yeast multiply naturally or will I need to add more yeast?
2) if I have to add more yeast will I lose the effect of souring of going into the 3rd generation?

There is plenty of yeast in the grain bed. I've tripled the size of the next generation without any problems.

Great thank you!

[Royalwulf]

so my first gen went well but my volumes for 2nd gen were not good.
first gen was 20l water but obviously (now) I didn't take 20l out as liquid was mixed in with corn and yeast at the bottom.
Unfortunately i didn't measure how much i took out.
To make calculations worse, I decided to do a 25l 2nd gen, probably not a good idea in a 30l bucket.
So i added 2l to keep yeast wet, probably not needed, added 6.25l backset from 1st gen, 4.2kg sugar, added 0.7 kg more corn plus what I took out as spent.
I could see I couldn't add 16.75l more water not enough room.
So i added as much as i could. Took a reading, it was 1.050. So i added more sugar to get 1.058 and left it at that.
My question is, the bucket is now quite full, not much space below the lid. Does there need to be much/any head space?
If so how much do i take out?

Update
It is now bubbling away nicely

[NZChris]

My question is, the bucket is now quite full, not much space below the lid. Does there need to be much/any head space?
If so how much do i take out?

You're about to find out.

Put it somewhere where an overflow doesn't create a problem. Don't use any type of airlock that could squirt mash if if pukes.

[Evil_Dark]

So i added 2l to keep yeast wet, probably not needed,

Yes it is needed, as you don't want the yeast to dry out and die. Some may survive, but it will take longer to colonize back the wash and ferment it dry, and you'll stress the yeast and have different flavors (sometime not good ones).

My question is, the bucket is now quite full, not much space below the lid. Does there need to be much/any head space?
If so how much do i take out?

I use 6 gals buckets as fermenters, and I fill them at 1.5inches of the top for my UJSSM washes without problem. My wash temp is 26-27 Celcius, so it's not too hot, that may help to not foaming too much.
The NZchris advice is very good, until you'll have experience with your fermentation method and technique, be ready for a spill / foamout. Better be ready and not have to, than be f***ed up on the carpet or somewhere else... The wife surely doesn't want a stain anywhere in the house.

Regards,

[OnceAlive]

so my first gen went well but my volumes for 2nd gen were not good.
...

I faced the same volumes juggling questions as probably did most new distillers sharpening their teeth with this recipe. I think it's one of the reason this is a really good recipe to start with because it gets you to manage volumes, ingredient quantities (like sugar and corn), temperatures (for pitching, incorporating backset after mixing in the sugar and so on)... This recipe is forgiving by design because the backset helps by regulating things and by keeping undesirable bacteria level low.

From my experience, there was no noticeable change in the wash volume during fermentation so I doubt you'll get an overflow problem. I would still follow NZChris recommendations though... always better safe than sorry.

What I would suggest for the next runs is to make sure you have at least the minimum amount of backset in your wash then top the fermentor to a reasonable level with water. With time you'll gain confidence on how much corn you replace, how much sugar to add, you'll discover tricks to cool down your backset more efficiently... all of that while pulling some drinkable product out of the process.

I think it's also worth mentioning that you'll get a lot of product with this so there's no need to push the limits of the process. Make sure you take time to understand what's happening and remember that one of the most valuable experience you can get while doing this is to learn how to make your cuts... the bottles filling is a nice rewarding added bonus and you will (or should) have too much soon enough... but that's what sharing was created for.

One last thing, if you're not doing it already you should start monitoring the PH of the wash. Noticeably from gen 3 I, as many others, had to add a source of calcium to the wash (I used egg shells at first then got oyster shells that I simply throw in... the wash will take what it needs).

[Royalwulf]

Thanks guys,
It did puke, waited until I took out the airlock. Not too bad just over the lid, but keeps bubbling a wee bit out of the hole. Good learning experince.

[Evil_Dark]

Thanks guys,
It did puke, waited until I took out the airlock. Not too bad just over the lid, but keeps bubbling a wee bit out of the hole. Good learning experince.

Well, did the same here... Had to adjust the SG with prediluted sugar, so the bucket was too full... roughly 1-3/4in of the top...
Let it as is for the sake of experience, and it did puked just a litle... Lesson learned!
I now run two 6 gal buckets of UJSSM simultaneously, that gives the perfect amount of wash to fill the boiler at 80% capacity.
I use the UJSSM as a base spirit for the liquors and other specialty blends, the taste is smooth and it is cheap to produce.

[Royalwulf]

Thanks guys,
It did puke, waited until I took out the airlock. Not too bad just over the lid, but keeps bubbling a wee bit out of the hole. Good learning experince.

Well, did the same here... Had to adjust the SG with prediluted sugar, so the bucket was too full... roughly 1-3/4in of the top...
Let it as is for the sake of experience, and it did puked just a litle... Lesson learned!
I now run two 6 gal buckets of UJSSM simultaneously, that gives the perfect amount of wash to fill the boiler at 80% capacity.
I use the UJSSM as a base spirit for the liquors and other specialty blends, the taste is smooth and it is cheap to produce.

How much does two 6 gal buckets give you? I barely got 20l out of my over filled 30l bucket, with so much corn and yeast at the bottom.

[Evil_Dark]

How much does two 6 gal buckets give you? I barely got 20l out of my over filled 30l bucket, with so much corn and yeast at the bottom.

I would say aroun 18-20L too. I used to syphon more, but I really recommend to let much of the liquid that is into the corn in there.
When I use to syphon more the liquid coming out was much more cloudy, and contains a part of the yeast bed. Whichwhen cooked into the boiler gives bad taste to the spirit. Also, taking out the yeast bed make it much longer and harder to colonize back the ferment, so it also gives off taste (yeast stressed). So it takes much around 14 days to ferment, compared to 4-7 days. So the extra liters collected below the corn bed really aren't worth it!
Tp solve this, I run two buckets of UJSSM at the same time. My boiler is a 40L, so I fill it up aroung 35L of UJSSM and it runs good for me!

[TwoSheds]

I've run UJ in 5 gallon and 14 gallon buckets and I'd say I end up with about 70-75% of the fermenter capacity. Between leaving headroom and what settles in with the corn I feel like it's just the nature of the beast.

As a result I'll start/strip more next time, but man, this is good stuff and easy to throw together! I'll share more of my experience when I get my notes together (just did my spirit run last weekend) but man, I got a LOT of great hearts!

[Evil_Dark]

I've run UJ in 5 gallon and 14 gallon buckets and I'd say I end up with about 70-75% of the fermenter capacity. Between leaving headroom and what settles in with the corn I feel like it's just the nature of the beast.

As a result I'll start/strip more next time, but man, this is good stuff and easy to throw together! I'll share more of my experience when I get my notes together (just did my spirit run last weekend) but man, I got a LOT of great hearts!

I agree. I continue to make a lot of it! After a while, you may want something less one dimensional for a whisky, but it's soo good, easy and low cost that it makes perfect base for making Amaretto, liquors, and different test and experiments... Also good to drink as is, just as a white dog!

I tweaked it with other grains to make nice variants also. I am now digging into all grains mashes, but still running my two UJSSM buckets

[subbrew]

I currently have my second generation (2 - 7 gallon ferments) of ujssm im about to run off. I want to up scale that to 1 - 30 gallon batch (as I just acquired a 60 gallon pickle barrel and would rather have 1 barrel than 2). I already figured out the backset I need (been using 30%) and the increase in corn needed. I plan on using the water I need to add to "rinse" both of the old fermenters so I can transfer contents to the new fermenter. Now on to my questions

1) will my yeast multiply naturally or will I need to add more yeast?
2) if I have to add more yeast will I lose the effect of souring of going into the 3rd generation?

Now you did it, you caught the distilling virus. I recently did as well and am doing 40 gallon ferments now. Those pickle barrels are great. Hope you have long arms though. That only problem I have had so far is I have to get half in the barrel to get the grain out to squeeze it.

[RC Al]

In my big drum, I generally let it clear a fair bit and then leave my grain bed alone, only taking wash down to the grain level and only adding enough sugar back in to suit the water added, back up to near the top. Can easily get 3 boiler charges with no squeezing or straining and only a little yeast gets in the boiler. Sometimes im in a hurry, so "dirty" wash gets done, I might have to start paying attention to that and see what the taste difference is.

[Evil_Dark]

In my big drum, I generally let it clear a fair bit and then leave my grain bed alone, only taking wash down to the grain level and only adding enough sugar back in to suit the water added, back up to near the top. Can easily get 3 boiler charges with no squeezing or straining and only a little yeast gets in the boiler. Sometimes im in a hurry, so "dirty" wash gets done, I might have to start paying attention to that and see what the taste difference is.

Personally I got a big difference when I was getting the most of the liquid contained in the grains by pushing my racking cane the deepest that I can.
Don't think that getting a bit of the top of the grain content would do much .

[Royalwulf]

I've run UJ in 5 gallon and 14 gallon buckets and I'd say I end up with about 70-75% of the fermenter capacity. Between leaving headroom and what settles in with the corn I feel like it's just the nature of the beast.

As a result I'll start/strip more next time, but man, this is good stuff and easy to throw together! I'll share more of my experience when I get my notes together (just did my spirit run last weekend) but man, I got a LOT of great hearts!

I agree. I continue to make a lot of it! After a while, you may want something less one dimensional for a whisky, but it's soo good, easy and low cost that it makes perfect base for making Amaretto, liquors, and different test and experiments... Also good to drink as is, just as a white dog!

I tweaked it with other grains to make nice variants also. I am now digging into all grains mashes, but still running my two UJSSM buckets

I agree it is good. I never drank whisky until i started distilling. I decided i needed to learn and drink different whiskys. My favourite so far is jack daniels, so i bought JD smoking chips and put them in uj, came out amazing for a whisky novice

[TwoSheds]

I agree it is good. I never drank whisky until i started distilling. I decided i needed to learn and drink different whiskys. My favourite so far is jack daniels, so i bought JD smoking chips and put them in uj, came out amazing for a whisky novice

I'm surprised, JD has a lot of bite, but to each his own. I'm liking my tight cut UJSSM like a light whisky. Fantastic with lemonade actually. I should try it with coke (which is how I like my JD.)

Just threw some charred oak in a couple jars of mine today. Need to burry them and forget about them for half a year now. We'll see how that goes!

Fun stuff. The possibilities are endless!

[Royalwulf]

ok, doesn't seem to have a bite to me. I drink it neat.

[dawgdoc1]

Hey guys,
Newb here. Running a 10 gal stainless pot still and have gone through 2 gen of UJSSM. Followed recipe originally as stated.

Gen 3 is currently fermenting fine. Wash batches are about 5 gal total (minus corn volume). All is generally going to plan, however Gen 3 is taking a little longer to finish. I'm on day 7, she's bubling pretty regularly and USG is 1.002 (og was 1.074), so I'm thinking I have a little longer to go. Taste is not overly sweet, but not dry. If she finishes later today, I can run it. If not I won't be able to run it till next weekend. My question is re: the yeast (bakers yeast). How long would I expect them to stay healthy If I racked the wash, replaced a little water and let them sit til I got backset to start Gen 4. Would I just need to add more yeast when it became time to ferment Gen 4?

It seems like the worst case scenario is you start over with new corn, new yeast, backset from gen 4. Or more simply, just pitch some new yeast

BTW it's currently kinda cool here in the low 40s F fwiw. I use a keg blankent to maintain a steady temp tho for the ferment btw

I've seen posts re: holding the wash for a bit and, read to place some water on yeast between generations, but haven't seen anything re: the above, where there might be an interruption btween racking, running and starting an new Gen

I apologize in advance if this has been covered. If so I missed it and will happily be redirected. I probably used the wrong search words. TIA!

[Saltbush Bill]

No need to rack it, leave the wash in the fermenter and the yeast will be happy sitting there for months.
Just syphon the wash off when needed.

[dawgdoc1]

Thanks SBB! really appreciate it.

[ThomasBrewer]

No need to rack it, leave the wash in the fermenter and the yeast will be happy sitting there for months.
Just syphon the wash off when needed.

I've not found that to be true, especially with generational UJSM. The wash will get progressively more sour. That might be a good thing, but that depends on your preference.

[Saltbush Bill]

Because the wash gets more sour does that mean the end product is worse?......I think not.